A Conversation for Talking Point: 11 September, 2001
Thank You, Canada
Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit Posted Sep 23, 2001
Don't mind President George... he's an idiot. I noticed that he failed to mention the Canucks as well, and I was ashamed of him. Oh well... he's not *my* president.
And because it was brought up... the Star-Spangled Banner has nothing to do with any battles with our brothers to the north. It was written after Francis Scott Key witnessed the battle for Fort McHenry, which overlooked Baltimore, Maryland. The British ships bombarded it for 25 hours, and it was these rockets which glared red. It can't really be called a battle, though. The Brits shelled it unmercifully, and the Americans refused to surrender. The Brits decided that assaulting it would be too costly, and so they departed.
Since this was a naval engagement, we can safely assume that it was an entirely British encounter.
And, because I'm such a history nerd, some cool facts about the Battle of New Orleans:
- The Treaty of Ghent was already signed by the time the battle took place. It had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the war. But, since word traveled slowly, neither of the commanders were aware of this fact.
- It was pretty much the only significant American land victory in the whole war. Because of this, the general who led the attack became famous enough to become president (Andrew Jackson).
Colonel Sellers, demonstrating that they *do* teach something in American schools, if you only take an interest.
Thank You, Canada
Good Doctor Zomnker (This must be Tuesday," said GDZ to himself, sinking low over his Dr. Pepper, "I never could get the hang of Tuesdays.") Posted Sep 23, 2001
no kidding, I did not know this info!
Thank You, Canada
~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum Posted Sep 23, 2001
"Tippacanoe and Tyler too" was the Presidential campaign slogan of another 'veteran' of this war. The Battle of Tippacanoe was but one of many ethnic cleansing raids carried out against native Americans by the US army who were invading the "Indian Territories".
These areas had been designated as a homeland for the Indians as part of the peace following the revolution and are clearly marked on maps of the time.
Britain and Canada allied with the natives and swore to preserve them, but while fighting Napoleon on another front, England lost the will. The Daniel Boones and Davy Crockets marched west and north. The great lakes became the final line in the sand. The Indian heroes, Pontiac, Tecumseh et al, have been all but forgotten.
The romantic and lusty adventures described in Last of the Mohichans is about all that is remembered of that issue today. I guess James Fennimore Cooper was talking about a different Fort. (Henry? McHenry? They all look alike when they're burning.)
*rushes off to review half remembered facts, apologising and bowing to the usual experts as he exits*
peace
jwf - a wagon burner at heart
Thank You, Canada
Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit Posted Sep 23, 2001
The mistake you're making is thinking that Cooper has any value, historical or fictional. Check out my links page for "The Literary Offenses of James Fenimore Cooper", by Mark Twain. You may feel humbled to have ever respected Cooper, but you'll definitely laugh your ass off.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A532289
Thank You, Canada
~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum Posted Sep 23, 2001
Colonel. My real mistake was assuming JFC still had any currency or credibility. I referenced him only to set the scene in a historical context for those who may not remember the War of 1812-14. Hollywood keeps remaking the movie, with bigger and badder battle scenes every time, and further revisionist interpretations of his already lame excuses for genocide!
In my youth JFC was generally (and wrongly) admired and respected as an authourity on the subject of pioneer Americana and I mistakenly assumed that this was still the case. So I am very glad to hear you don't really think much of him either.
Thanks for the link. I'm sure I'll find much in Twain's assessment to assure me we do share an opinion of his value, historically at least.
*off to engage another truly great American mind, Samuel Clements*
peace
jwf
Thank You, Canada
~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum Posted Sep 23, 2001
LOL!
You're right, Colonel. I was humbled. Twain always humbles me, even when he steps into 'character' and rants beyond his own true persona and becomes self indulgently mean, in a bully kind of way, to the subject of his ridicule.
You may have noticed I tend to do the same thing sometimes. Can't help it, when I'm writing and realise I could 'intellectually' say something even if it isn't really me saying it, or even how I really feel. But a true comic will always go for the gusto, go for the laugh, when he's on a roll. (George Carlin comes to mind as someone who risks everything to make you think about what you're really laughing at.)
And you'll be glad to know I took on board Twain's true criticism of many literary devices employed by so many bad writers. I even recognised a few of my own bad habits and will try to reform.
Thanks for the laff! And thanks for the criticism.
peace
jwf (relieved to hear it was British rockets that illuminated the flag after all)
Thank You, Canada
Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit Posted Sep 23, 2001
That's why I'm glad to know you, jwf... you remind me of Twain, to some degree. Every once in a while, I'll come across what appears to be a mean-spirited rant. Then I notice your name at the top, read it again, and chuckle to myself.
Not to try to justify it or anything, but I feel that it warrants mentioning that the natives were used against the colonists by France in the French and Indian War (hence the clever name), and then by Britain and Canada during the Revolution and the War of 1812. The natives used some very dirty tricks during the fighting, as well. It's understandable that the early Americans would have turned upon them as a natural enemy.
That they occupied some choice land may, perhaps, have entered their minds as well.
Colonel Sellers, international man of misery
Thank You, Canada
~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum Posted Sep 24, 2001
Cheer up oh man of misery!
Thanks for the compliment and the understanding.
I should also tell you, I am not really one of those to lay blame for past sins on the present generation. True, ALL North Americans have to come to terms with what our ancestors did to the aboriginal population, just as all Brits have to ponder the past morality of the Empire. But it would be unfair and unwise to hold a grudge unto the present generation. Most have no idea.
However, I will, in my bitterly ironic way, always take an opportunity to remind everyone of where we been and what we did to get where we are, before allowing anyone to make serious plans about where we might be heading.
Oh and BTW, the supply of weapons to Afghanistan by the CIA in the 1980s does not yet meet my 'statute of limitations' on past sins. But fortunately, and obviously, my understanding of the whole situation does not qualify me to judge further. I just know that over four million of them are expected to starve to death this winter anyway.
So, peace
jwf
Thank You, Canada
Good Doctor Zomnker (This must be Tuesday," said GDZ to himself, sinking low over his Dr. Pepper, "I never could get the hang of Tuesdays.") Posted Sep 28, 2001
How many times has my country's assistance risen up and bitten us in the behind? Let's see: Afghanistan (80s), Iraq (Iran/Iraq war), Panama (Noriega). Seems that almost everytime we help someone, they don't appreciate it and try to punish us for helping them. The three I listed are just a small few but, I think we could come up with quite a few more instances where the US has been bitten.
Ben
Key: Complain about this post
Thank You, Canada
- 61: Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit (Sep 23, 2001)
- 62: Good Doctor Zomnker (This must be Tuesday," said GDZ to himself, sinking low over his Dr. Pepper, "I never could get the hang of Tuesdays.") (Sep 23, 2001)
- 63: ~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum (Sep 23, 2001)
- 64: Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit (Sep 23, 2001)
- 65: ~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum (Sep 23, 2001)
- 66: ~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum (Sep 23, 2001)
- 67: Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit (Sep 23, 2001)
- 68: ~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum (Sep 24, 2001)
- 69: Good Doctor Zomnker (This must be Tuesday," said GDZ to himself, sinking low over his Dr. Pepper, "I never could get the hang of Tuesdays.") (Sep 28, 2001)
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