h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

My girlfriend is Pakistani Muslim. We've talked a lot about the animosity held by Islamic nations towards the USA even before Tuesday's attacts. She recalled seeing grafitti in Pakistan that said, "Love Islam, hate America" and that the USA is called "Kufristan" meaning "Land of Sin."
I am well aware that these horrible acts are the work of a psychotic few and are not representative of Muslims in general, but the fact remains that they were celebrated in several places in the middle east and animosity does exist.
I invite you all to share your opinions and offer any historical insight into the hatred of America held by Islamic nations.

this subject has/is covered over at http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/F19585?thread=84337

I posted this elsewhere, but....

As an American.....

I will start slow here so that everyone will know where I am coming from.

I am not, AM NOT, an anti-muslim. Islam is not about this kind of behavior any more than Christianity. I am not even convinced it has any muslim involvement at all. But, Islam is a ready target because of so much violence they have done under the name of Jihad,(Christians remember the term Crusade before you're anger gets stirred), in addition to the cell phone calls from the planes where arabic was reportedly heard in the background. I feel for peace loving moslems, the hour is as dark for you as it was for the Japanese after Pearl Harbor. Have patience with us if it is possible, there is a lot of pain manifested in anger across this nation today. Beware, be careful, be faithful. Likewise I challenge Christians the same. Step up to the plate people.

That being said...the person or person's responsible need to be found. I will not condone a blind punishment of those who are not responsible for this act of atrosity and open declaration of war against unarmed, peaceful, civilians. Those that have done this will be found and punished. Do not doubt it for a moment.

I for one am outraged at the rhetoric going around about violence trading with violence etc. Tossing America in this horrible hour as if we are some kind of dim witted giant who will just go stomping about until our rage ends. How foolish must we really be in your eyes? Are we to just roll over and not do anything about this? Wouldn't that course of action invite more violence to our citizens? Get serious people. An attack has been done on our people. Our nation security is threatened. We will respond. We will defend our population with direct and overwhelming force. Do not think that we will let the parties responsible get away without payment in kind.

Those who have done this should be afraid, should have had the forethought to know that this was coming, and expect it. Our response will be focused and terrible. Count on it.

Yes, I've read the 'What's wrong with Americans' thread, and it deals mainly with arrogant tourists and the "world series" misnomer and such.
I'd like to see a more specific conversation here. What's the historical context of escalating homicidal hatred? This is quite different from annoyance at the fact that Americans never bother to learn foreign languages.

Fair comment, I just thought that if people were intrested in this theme they may be intrested in the other.

Admittedly I'm an American too, but I agree with this response. When American citizens declare war on America with terrorist attacks, America has responded with force of whatever level is needed to ensure its citizens' security. Why should foreign citizens be any different?

It would be a mistake to treat the entire Islamic world as America's enemy, though. Most world governments, Islamic or not, do not condone terrorism. Even several of Afganistan's Islamic neighbors would prefer that Afghanistan return to the rule of law.

If the attackers wanted to unite world opinion against them and consolidate American support behind a President whose approval rating was dubious up until now, they've probably succeeded. If they wanted something else, I have to wonder how they planned to get there from here.

Historical context....

I'm not a historian, but it seems to me that the context is, religion generally, and our values as a nation generally.

The thing to remember, as I've stressed above is that Islam is NOT a religion that condones this kind of terrorist action. No more than Christianity. These people have declared jihad on us, a holy war in which they are fighting on the side of Allah. Their very lives are their weapons, to be used in the service of their God. The only thing I can think of to compare it to is a Crusade in which Christians sent time and again, (against the moslems no less) soldiers to die in the name of Jesus to regain the Holy Land. The soldiers felt justified because God's voice on earth the Pope, told them that they what they were doing was ordained by God. What we are dealing with, is a people who are fighting for the side(in their opinion and religion) of Allah. Their weapon is TERRORISM. And you cannot deny the power of their conviction however misguided. This is not about capatilism(in my mind) or policy, this is about a higher power and man's interpretation of it. I caution everyone to think on the difference. These people are the radical fundamentalists. Not representative of Islam in its entirity. The blame needs to be placed on the correct people.

One person's homicidal hatred is another person's response to violence by stateless causes. For historical consequences, ask the Barbary pirates. In fact, ask any pirate... if you can find one.

So the imminent collapse of the capitalist system is just an unfortunate side-effect?

No,

It is one of the goals. But the foundation of that goal is built on religion.

The comparison to the crusades is a bit shaky, as that was an entirely different kind of war, fought in a different time, in a different matter, for a different reason. The common thread is religion, to be sure, but it doesn't go much further than that. The crusades were about trying to reclaim something, there was something tangible, the possession of which both sides were struggling to acheive or retain.
Tuesday's attacks come seemingly without reason. I'd like to find a reason. Someone has declared a holy war against the US, but why? What's the history behind the hatred?

What I mean by the Crusades is not neccassarily the goals of those wars...but the fact that it was supposedly condoned by God. God approved.

I have heard that the hatred of some Muslims for Christians is down to the Crusades: bad feeling against the Crusaders marching in and slaughtering innocents.

Yes, thank you perium.

My girlfriend's analysis is that the animosity toward's America is transferred fear and hatred of 'The West' in general, which in turn came from the colonialism of the 19th century and the british betrayal of the arabs after WWI. America has come to represent the evils of economic imperialism, and this, boosted by fanaticism has let to the formation of groups like bin Laden's, who call for the death of every American citizen military and civilian and say that this is the duty of every Muslim.

"America has come to represent the evils of economic imperialism, and this, boosted by fanaticism has let to the formation of groups like bin Laden's, who call for the death of every American citizen military and civilian and say that this is the duty of every Muslim."

And ladies and gentleman it is that statement that is the most disturbing. It is their duty, their moral resposibility to act with force to fulfill the will of Allah.

Assuredly this is more serious, and more deep set hatred than the average American realizes. There is history here, that goes back even unto the Crusades (yes permit me to go back there one more time here..) in which the European Christians have fought against them (moslems) time and again to take land that where they lived and indeed was just as holy to their religion as it was to the Christians.

This conflict is not new. It is older than you may realize. And the hatred of our ancestors and theirs has lead to this.....

But this again is not indicitive of the majority of moslems. These actions are the radical fundamentalists...they are the terrorists. We cannot be guilty of the same sweeping generalizations as our ancestors and those of the terrorists groups. All moslems are not the same. It is imperative that the right people feel our justice!

I also think much of the recent animosity is due to the Islamic revolution of 20 years ago, during which demagogues needed a bogeyman and so brought back an old enemy.

How old of an enemy can the US be? We have only been a world power for about 100 years.

Not so much an enemy of the Unites States specifically. Although rememeber that this country was founded under God. That allies us with the Christians that have been their enemies in the past. We as a country are the peak of hundreds of years of pent up animosity towards Christians in general and our society specifically.

It's sad that relegion is used by a group of extremists to further their hate for everything. I'm catholic, and was raised in Ireland, so I've seen what religion can do first hand. ALL religions should be outlawed as a harbinger of evil. Think about it, all the way back to the earlier Popes who used religion as a means to slay 1000's, to today where we see it in the middle east and other countries. If this world is to sustain itself in way shape or form then we need to take a really closer look at this thing we call religion. I'm sure there is a higher power, but until we all know that for sure I don't think that people need be killed for believing in one thing or another. I don't care what religion anyone is, as long as they keep their beliefs to themselves without trying to shove it in peoples faces, then that would help this petetic world see what is going on here. Religion is supposed to be something that is for the good of mankind, instead it may just be the ruin. (Disclaimer): "I wish to offend no-one here, but I believe that I have as we all do a right to voice our opinions without retaleation"

Whew, I remember when I thought I could say my opinion without retaliation....lol.

I don't agree that religion should be done away with, I just think that the moment you commit terrorist acts in the name of a religion you've missed the point of your religion. With the exception of maybe Satanism . Which just has to be full of crap.