A Conversation for Talking Point: 11 September, 2001

Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 381

taliesin

I think it's a good article. Unfortunately, it will very likely be removed by the moderators due to copyright issues, so be prepared..

( I have copied it in order to pass it on to others smiley - smiley )

Even in these times, the legal issues have to interfere.. smiley - sadface

Peace


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 382

Mister Matty

No, Pandora, I didn't mean you. The person I meant only goes by Researcher number. Like a lot of the people expressing extremist views from both sides, it seems.


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 383

Mister Matty

Sorry to pop your bubble but Jesus wasn't too different from all the people trying to make the world a better place today. He wasn't much of a "rabble-rouser" he was great at attacking hypocrisy and he took on the power structure and lost. I think people like that should be admired, Son of God or not

And no, I'm not a Christian smiley - silly


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 384

purplejenny

*pops in out of context*

Hello smiley - smiley

I'd just like to make a friendly suggestion that new users activate thier personal spaces so that they can be a name, not a number, and get thier own personal friendly welcome from one of the h2g2 ACEs.

Just click 'my space' to get to your user page, hit the preference button type a quick intro (just "hello" would be fine) and give yourself a username.

Numbers are so impersonal, and get me all befuddled with people.

Thanks all

smiley - cheerup

purplejenny

*popsoff in a hurry to friendlily welcome anyone who does so*


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 385

Yeliab {h2g2as}

Wow, yeah. He was good like that (I think that many Christian denomenations could learn alot from him (Protestant Methodist me)).

Worringly however, could it be thought that these pople that did this are just taking on the power structure? Should America have as much power as it has?


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 386

a girl called Ben

As the person who wrote 367 I would like to say that I thought of yikesing it almost immediately after I posted it but decided not to, because of the official line is "think before you post and live with the consequences afterwards" so it seemed a pointless exercise.

If it stays hidden, it is probably a good thing. It did not promote peace, even if it did take a bash at understanding. You can understand the jist from Jude's postings which refer to it.

I would like to apologise to any Americans, or indeed anyone, whom I offended or hurt.

I would also like to pay tribute to the measured and gentle reprimands from two friends I have not met, (waves to MoG, and waves to LeKZ).

And Pyrex, after the Gulf War I went to the International Air Tattoo in Fairford, which was full of American planes and American personnel. I wanted to go up to individual servicemen to thank them for keeping the world safe for democracy. But I am English. I was too embarrassed to do so. And I have a strong sense of the ironic and the rediulous. If any of them had said "you are welcome, ma'am" I would have giggled in an unseemly manner.

But I do appreciate the job that you guys did then.

*feeling many contradictory things, and fraying a little at the edges, as we all are*

a human being called Ben


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 387

Asterion

Wait, we're supposed to get a friendly greeting from one of the ACE's? I don't think I ever got one of those and I activated a year ago and have full or partial author credit on at least two entries. Not that I need one.


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 388

Asterion

I would now like to say that I am a freaking moron that never looks at my personal space and feels bad for attacking the ACE's. I did indeed get one.

Okay, get back on topic.

What do you guys think'll happen this weekend?


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 389

paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant

Ben:

Post 367, which is now hidden, was very
interesting, in my opinion, though I would
have asked for more clarification from you.
Since no one can now see that post, I won't
ask the questions I was going to.

I greatly admire the people of the United
Kingdom for managing to go on with their
lives in spite of violence and bombs and other
difficulties (which now include mad cow disease
and hoof and mouth disease). I believe that we
Americans could learn a lot from them. Please
do not hesitate to help us as our hour of need
approaches. smiley - smiley

Every one of us is capable of adapting to new
circumstances. This is just as well, because
it's what we will need to do. I rarely take
trips in airplanes, so I doubt the prospect
of long check-in times and delayed flights
will affect me much. I would like to see New
York and other cities insist that very tall
buildings have fire escapes. Seeing those poor
people jump from the WTC towers seemed most
unfortunate. If the stairs were too crowded
to escape down, or were blocked by smoke
and flames, then why weren't there fire escapes?


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 390

a girl called Ben

Well, I am going to go shopping, get some groceries, do some gardening and a little house-work. I need to buy an adaptor to attach my water hosepipe to the kitchen tap so I can water the plants in tubs in my garden. And I want some cord so I can hang a picture I had framed recently. I think I'll make some phonecalls, and maybe arrange to see some friends.

()
| |
| |

a human-being called Ben


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 391

a girl called Ben

Paul, if you want to ask me questions, my email addy is in my personal space.
***B


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 392

Cooper the Pacifist Poet

Turning the Other Cheek
The Case against Retributive Militarism

We, the citizens of the United States, have received a major strike against our homes and our stability. Our lives and our government have been attacked. Our economy has been brought to a standstill. We live in terror.
But it is not by virtue of the fact that we are Americans that we are afraid.
Our fear comes because we are human. We are fragile, and we seek a protector.
We, as citizens of the world, abhor the events of 11 September. We abhor them because they are madness, malice, and evil. Every true man and woman mourns the depravity that could drive any human to commit these despicable acts. We are all brothers and sisters through our shared experiences of violence.
We must realise that this madness has been thrust upon us.
It is unique in its scale of human suffering and terror. These horrible images and thoughts are difficult, indeed impossible, to grasp fully. We must deal with this madness. We must fight it.
It has been said, and it will be said, that the United States must retaliate, must root out the evil, must destroy it utterly. A military attack, regardless of on whom it falls, will not solve this problem. We will only martyr the guilty and murder the innocent. We will be destroying our brothers and sisters.
In short, we will have succumbed to the madness, the malice, the evil. Any virtues that America stood for will have been destroyed.
In some ways, the madness has begun to show. Many Arabs and Muslims around the world have been intimidated, many attacked. We must realise that by striking militarily against any organisation, any nation, we are acknowledging and condoning a state of religious war. George W. Bush has invoked God to support the United States.
All military attacks involve civilian casualties. Killing an armed combatant is bad enough; it is hypocritical to kill civilians in retribution for an attack on civilians. Doing so only proclaims that United States civilians are more valuable and more important than other civilians are. We cannot make this statement.
We cannot afford, ethically and morally, to allow this cycle of violence to continue. We must destroy and control the madness within ourselves.
Let us not become factionalised on the basis of religion, ethnicity, or any other factor. “We” can have only one meaning: the human race.
Let us not, in our terror, see the world through the distortion that only terror can produce. Let us not seek retributive military attacks to ease our pain. Violence has the power only to harm.

Andrew Cooper, 12 September 2001


Yes, I'm an American.

--Cooper


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 393

Sylvia, pokémon trainer(with her Oddish)(Minister of emerald green, keeper of green magic)

Bravo, Cooper. Bravo indeed.

I would like to point out that my family is planning on heading down to the nearest Muslim place of worship and giving them a bunch of flowers, as well as thanking the police guards profusely.

We are Christians, and we live in Washington state.


smiley - bluesmiley - rosesmiley - blue


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 394

Cooper the Pacifist Poet

I am afraid, right now.

I am afraid for my Arab friends. My Kuwaiti neighbours got a brick through their window Tuesday night.

I am afraid for my Muslim friends. All of them are in fear.

I am afraid for my Hispanic friends. Several of them have been mistaken for Arabs and intimidated, in one case threatened with a car.

I am afraid for myself. As a pacifist, I have been told already to take my svastika and catch the next flight to Kabul. As a sixteen-year-old, I stand a good chance of being drafted, if not into a combat situation, into an intelligence job which I do not want.

I am afraid for the world. We are heading toward a war.

--Cooper


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 395

Cooper the Pacifist Poet

Thank you for your kind act. The world thanks you.

Let us live peace.

--Cooper


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 396

dimples

Now is the time for hope. That was what today was supposed to partially convey. Yes, some will pay, but you must always remember that there is more good than evil in the world. As an American, and a fiercly proud one (I never knew till this week!!) I will fight to the death for the rights of anyone to have freedom of their opinion, religion, or lifestyle. The thing I have always truly loved about being an American is that you can see people, in America demonstrating AGAINST America. And it is alright. And the police are protecting the demonstraters. That is what a free society is about. You let people express their opinions and you respect them. You don't have to believe them. The same is true for the debate going on in America right now. I am a pacifist, but I know that I don't have the experience, knowledge or information that our leaders in this country do have. I have to hope, pray and have faith that our elected officials can strike those that are responsible, but protect those who are the innocent, such as the people under regimes that are not free. Lets hope our leaders make decisions based on our constitution and laws and not by invoking new ones.

But have hope! The world (as you can see by the wonderful people on this site) is great place filled with love, peace and understanding. We have to remember that. Fear is a factor in becoming a fanatic, so hold on to your hope!


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 397

Cooper the Pacifist Poet

I cannot agree with you fully. I must insist that killing at all is inherently evil, regardless of the victim.

If it were my judgement to make, I would not go to war or use any such violent means.

I am not a cog in a machine. I cannot support my nation if she do something immoral and unethical.


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 398

Montana Redhead (now with letters)

My friend Steve is ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He was hit in the head by a window, and has some 700 stitches from the glass that hit him, and was unconcious for some 38 hours, but he is ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The universe is good.


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 399

dimples

Isn't that the BEST feeling in the world??!! Congrats!!!!

Lets hope more get that kind of good news!


Twin Towers Plane Crash

Post 400

Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here

MR, splendid news smiley - smiley

Dimples,depending on your criteria and definition of a country, the current count can range anywhere from 189 to 266 or so.

Of these the citizens of at least 200 of them have just as many (and in some cases more) freedoms as citizens of the United States.

Personally, I believe that any country that feels the need to have the word "United" in its name, isn't.


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