h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Heathen,

<>

I'm actually more afraid of the possibilites inherent in this last line you posted than being blown up by a terrorist. It seems as though since 9-11 the world, and especially Americans, have been being fed a daily dose of fear by the media.

I feel especially sorry for Americans who are bombarded by this constantly so that other VERY REAL concerns such as global warming are almost not even considered. It is as though the government and the media are *trying* to scare people into a sense of helplessness.

It logically makes more sense that this attack was done by Eta. They had the (warped) reasons and motivations for doing such a thing, especially so near an election date. Yes, they have been more or less taken over by young radicals, as you pointed out, which could explain different tactics.

It also isn't unheard of for other terrorist groups to claim responsibility for attacks they haven't committed. And it would behove al-Qaida to send a shudder of fear through the world right now by saying they were responsible.

I'm actually wondering if we are ever going to be told the truth. You know what I mean?

az

az.


Anything to make life a bit harder for them. I've refined the idea to a brief 'confirmatory' ring whenever you switch on. One thing we have more control over than the terrorists is the technological environment. We already use it as a means of surveillence, so why not also as a 'weapon'. Ideally, we make changes that won't inconvenience the public or can be 'sold' as an improvement.

toxx

"I'm actually wondering if we are ever going to be told the truth. You know what I mean?"

Oh, yes, I do. It's too early to hope that any real information can come in on the Madrid atrocity, but I can't help wondering how much it serves the purpose of various governments to control their uppity citizens who proclaim civil rights and human rights and free speech and freedom of information etc to restrict all these in the name of 'security'.

We all know we don't desire to lose the very thing we wish to preserve in the name of anything. But other many people prefer to be treated as children, not have to make up their own minds, and be protected from any conceivable risk.

civil liberties are being eroded at an alarming rate and Blair is is trying to circumvent the entire legal syl system by denying jury trials and changing the court system taking royal authority away

Come back the caverliers , does this mean the chance of the civil war again then,denying jury trials and changing the court system taking royal authority away last bloke that tried that Old
O Cromwell,esquire, do you think Tony Aspire to greatness this way

<>

Watching the news as I do, here in the USA, it doesn't come across to me as trying to scare us into helplessness, more as a warning not to be complacent about terrorist issues.

Lest we forget Bay of Pigs,Macarthyism,prohibition ,all brought about by misinformation something American Poli(tit)ions know all about.
Could have something to do with what was the first piece of missinformation.A tea party in Boston i believe ?

I heard a lunatic on the radio this morning, saying that the bombing was to advantage the Socialists, because of their election victory, and that therefore socialists around the world will be perpetrating bombings before elections! Here in NZ, it seems to be taken for granted that the bombing was perpetrated by Al Q. But from what I gather from the BBC, there *is* room for doubt...

Thank you HS, for this cogent analysis, in NZ everyone takes it for granted the perps were Al Q.
Personally, for the reasons you gave, I think otherwise.
Interesting!

I've just read that Spain's incoming Prime Minister, Jose Zapatero, has pledged to withdraw 1300 Spanish troops from Iraq in July, when their tour of duty ends. Maybe the Al Qaeda was there to help this along, maybe not, but it does seem to be a possiblity.

az oz out of curiosity how do you feel about your new government?

Heathen,

<>

I wonder how many Americans actually realise how few civil rights they are left with after the infamous USA PATRIOT act that Bush put into action shortly after 9-11. Apparently it is written is such convoluted legalese that most lawyers wouldn't be able to understand it, let alone the general public.

Given that fifteen years ago, before I left Canada to live in Europe, I found most American news reports to focus on fear-making items I would be very surprised if this wasn't the case now. Part of my reason for leaving Canada was to get away from this influence. It looks like it's catching up though. Sad to say.

az

hi crazyhorse,

Oh, I don't know yet. It's been awhile since the socialists were in power. I'm not sure it's best for the country financially. Whether 'the shoemaker' (Zapatero) will fulfill his election promises also remains to be seen.

az

Yes Az it looks like it ,Blair has carried on the work Thatcher started along those lines by the other method.
Social secureity benifits ,clampdowns and method of collection way too
much information, which under the freedom of information act can be passed on to "any" gov depart or otherwise interested parties.

Not a lot of people know that,

well ll i reckon its a good thing just wish the liberal democrats would get a shot over here

I find myself reading and thinking some unnerving things, there is in the ambiguity of who is to blame for this dreadful act the hint of conspiracy.

A cynical person might accuse governments such as the US and British ones of playing 'real politic' as Bismark would have called it, with the whole idea of a 'war' on terrorism, some previous posts have suggested that such a 'war' keeps other more difficult (For governments at least) issues out of the media, Fear of the enemy also to use Bismarks rationale, keeps a population pliant and compliant.

Given the CIA's role in provoking wars and disturbances in foreign countries, over the last few decades, not to mention funding them and supplying weapons ect, it might not be inconcievable that the CIA might have planted these bombs to bring Europe more on board with the 'war' against terrorism. (I find myself imagining someone saying in a darkened room 'What Europe needs is its own 9 11')It seems a far fetched conspiracy theory at one level but they have been suspected of many things of a comparable nature over the years (Supplying the Taliban with arms for instance). The Bush family is of course very wrapped up with the CIA too, since George Senior was once it's director. I would like to hope that a democracy would not be capable of this as it would probably completely undermine any faith I had left in politicians.

The cold Angry part of me also likes the thought of the culprits facing the thought of the remainder of their lives confronted with the faces of their victims, the clynical systematic part of me wants to use tham as the psychological equivalent of lab rats, what is it that makes someone do such terrible things, and spend theire entire lives as the subject of such enquiries. I like even more the possibility of facing them with the families of their victims, and confronting their own demon's in counselling and therapy of various kinds. We need to know why, so we can find ways to stop it.

Talking to the leaderships is one way forward, because of the fanaticism not despite it. Though I personaly feel that the leadership of violent organisations are more culpable not less culpable than the people they persuade to do their dirty work. Since it is these people that are giving the orders, only by addressing ourselves to them will we even stand a chance of persuading them of the error of their ways. Frustrating even though it is, that they may well escape the punishments they so richly deserve.

South Africa springs to mind as somewhere that by forgoing direct vengeance a peacefull transition to majority rule was achieved (this is not to say that I think this process was perfect, or that there are not currently problems in south Africa.

There was a reference in an earlier post to how NAZI germany needed to be confronted and that because of this WWII was inevitable. I agree that once it went beyond a certain pont that this was true. However I also think that there were other ways that the NAZI threat could have been contained earlier. Aldous Huxley pointed out to the British Government well before the start of the War that Weapons manufacture worldwide depended on resources that the british government controlled. His suggestion that no more Titanium (Which at the time was produced almost entirely by british and American companies) used in the manufacture of firing pins should be sold to germany was rejected as 'impractical', which might be translated as economically damaging.

My point is that challenging and sanctioning what we can agree is socially unacceptable early can save us becoming drawn into extreme difficulties later. Al Quaida was armed in part by the Taliban, who I noted earlier were in part armed by the CIA. Britain was in part responsible for arming Iraq prior to the first gulf war, as was the US gov't.

To my mind many governments are playing 'real politic' keep the population angry with foreigners and they won't ask the aquard questions at home, it's not PC to talk about foreigners so now it is fundamentalist Muslims, terrorist, Iraq, Afganistan, the Taliban, any label the public will buy, if they don't like the label change it, If they stop hating the enemy (Gadafi or Arafat for instance)change the enemy.

It seems almost to be a demon hybrid between 19th century warmongering and 21st century advertising. The most awefull thing is that Al Quaida are clearly an obnoxious organisation that needs to be stopped somehow, as is ETA the IRA and all the other Terrorists. I would be delighted (But also amazed) If I were to hear that the US was devoting the same level of funding to research into the causes and prevention of violence in all aspects of the world social context as the put into their military expenditure each year, we might stand at least a small chance of solving some of the problems we face.

I must get connected at home it might shorten some of these epistles I seem to be writing. <Tough Love Angry Compassion Smiley)

Ahem, yes it was a wee bit long but points well made.

(I find myself imagining someone saying in a darkened room 'What Europe needs is its own 9 11')

As one who lived through the IRA's efforts at oblitering myself and my fellow Londoners lives (largely helped by the kind citizens of USA) we musn't forget that UK citizens lived under the fear of terrorism for years. If someone, other than sympathisers suggested that we should pull out of N.Ireland because of the bombings, I for one would have protested because it would have meant that their horrible actions would allow them to claim victory.

Over the years I have visited Ireland a couple of times and found the attitude of tasset agreement to the republicans actions deeply offensive and have been struggling with Irish prejudice since then.

As far as I can see the the new Spanish PM's promise to withdraw their troops at the end of June was an election promise and not necessarily an act of cowardice but no doubt the media will cloud the issue to make it as sensational as possible.

God, it is easy to ramble on isn't it!

I am new so forgive me for putting this post in the wrong place if it is, but this is MY answer to Your question...

Fact or Fiction... or Both? Since god is Jesus, and the holy spirit, it could be true. God is a little bit of a far fetched idea so that the poor little christians have someone to blame for their problems. The bible is just a convenient scrapbook from a madman in a cave to live by. Some of the facts are true, otherwise the boat in the mountains is rahter odd to explain, but most of it is embellished by radicals and hypocrites and close-minded fools. I believe Jesus was a man... A very smart, cunning, crook with the abilities that about anyone can have... to heal. Anyone can heal, it just takes soul, not someone else touching you just right. And spirits do exist- You can talk to them. So the "holy spirit" may be something along the lines of Mother Theresa's soul. The christians, just as everyone else in an organized religion, have some truth to their beliefs, they're just a little too closed minded to question it.

Better yet since that book was stolen from someone I hold dear, try reading "Oh, My God! Are You Talking to Me?" by Peniel G.G.G. (I've seen the original script from back in the early 1900's). Never read it, but if someone sees your post from back then, and looks up that book, it would be horrible...

Hello, Myndkandi, and welcome to the GFF thread. I see you've joined us here straight from post 1, missing out the intervening 18000+ posts. Very wise Far too much to wade through at this time of night. Unless you live somewhere where it isn't this time of night, of course.

Noggin