h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Very little of this entry explained any of the "finer" points of Mormonism to me.

I have 2 quuestions:
1. How can any "God fearing" individual have respect for a religion that said , in their doctrine, that dark skin was a sign of original sin? (They did change it in 1974, but still. I also might be off about 2 years on that date.)
2. Why do mormons feel the need to show up on your doorstep and try to talk to you on the street?

Once these are answered I might feel a little more enlightened about this odd religion.

Hi there Apoptygma. I think I can answer your questions, at least from the perspective of an LDS member.

Your first question is one I find rather tough to answer. The first thing I'd point out is that the LDS church does not subscribe to the doctrine of "original sin." The policy you are referring to (which was changed in 1978) was the policy that those of black ancestry were not allowed to hold the priesthood. This obviously opens a new can of worms. The resolution to this probably won't appease everyone, but it does make sense in a historical/Biblical context. In ancient Israel, only the males who could prove their lineage was from the tribe of Levi were allowed to hold the priesthood. I guess my point is that God has often limited who is allowed to hold the priesthood. In the LDS church, people of color were discounted from holding the priesthood. It's my understanding that it was prophesized that they eventually would be allowed to hold the priesthood, but many people felt that it wouldn't happen until after Christ returned. Obviously, from the 1978 policy, they were wrong.

The second question is quite a bit easier. As annoying as I'm certain they are (I was one for two years), LDS missionaries feel they are helping fulfil the mandate Christ gives in Matthew 28:19, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." The missionary program is a part of the church's efforts to "teach all nations."

Anything I can clarify for you, or does that pretty much answer your questions?

The denial of full church participation to Negroes has no parallels in ancient Israel. The reference to a special caste of people who held the priesthood is explained by the fact that God "chose" a particular family line to fulfill a particular role in the temple. The Negro is denied priesthood participation,not because he is not of a particular chosen caste, but because he is of a caste that is rejected because of his skin colour. There is a world of difference between choosing a people for a particular function and rejecting a whole race because of skin colour. Mormonism teaches that Negroes are an inferior race and that their skin colour is a mark put upon them to show God's disaproval. The claim is that, in a pre-mortal existence, a whole group of people were less than fulsome in their devotion to God and so they were cursed with a dark skin and denied full participation in the Mormon Church.

Mormon Apostle Mark E. Petersen frankly declared;

Is there any reason then why the type of birth we receive in this life is not a reflection of the worthiness or lack of it in the pre-existent life?...We cannot escape the conclusion that because of performance in our pre-existence some of us are born as Chinese, some as Japanese, some as Latter-day Saints. These are rewards and punishments... (Mark E. Petersen, Race Problems-As They Affect The Church)

Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie declared:

Though he was a rebel and an associate of Lucifer in pre-existence, and though he was a liar from the beginning whose name was Perdition, Cain managed to attain the privilege of mortal birth... he came out in open rebellion, fought God, worshipped Lucifer, and slew Abel...
As a result of his rebellion, Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those spirits who were not worthy to receive the priesthood are born through his lineage. (Mormon Doctrine,1958, p.102)

Third Mormon president John Taylor said:

And after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham's wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God. (JOD. vol.22. p.304)

The result of this doctrine is clearly demonstrated by Bruce R. McConkie who said that, "The gospel message of salvation is not carried affirmatively to [Negroes]."(Mormon Doctrine, 1958, p.477)

Mormon president Brigham Young went so far as to say:

Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so. (JOD, vol.10, p.110)

The reversal of this policy, while welcome of course, contradicts clear statements to the effect that the Negro will not receive the priesthood until after the Millenial reign of Christ, after the resurrection of the dead and after the seed of Abel, who was slain by Cain, comes into their full inheritance of priesthood blessing in the eternal realm. I realise that much of this will sound peculiar to non-Mormons and perhaps even to some Mormons but the doctrine of the curse of the Negro was well developed in the Mormon Church before 1978. It is no longer emphasised but still forms an integral part of Mormon Scripture, both in the Book of Mormon and in the teachings of church leaders, as well as church history. It is sad that so many Mormons do not know this and are left to speculate about the reasons for the pre-1978 policy which is as offensive to most right-thinking Mormons as it is to non-Mormons.

Mike Tea

Like I said, the answer wasn't going to appease everyone. When writing the response I was aware of the older LDS doctrines, typically used by anti-Mormons to inflame any outsider by giving rather convenient (or inconvenient, depending on which side you're on) references to books that, quite honestly, I don't own. Nor do most members of the LDS faith. I don't question your quotes' authenticity. They could be misquotes, but I doubt it... why else go to the effort of quoting "Journal of Discourses," a book even most LDS members have no copy of? If your gripe is whether or not the "Book of Mormon" is scripture (which is really the big question for outsiders to figure out), then quote it. Almost every LDS member has a copy of it, and it is "canonical LDS scripture." It's not too difficult to tear down other's beliefs. Build up others with your own beliefs.

Dear MKL

If you KNEW then why didn't you just SAY? I am puzzled

Mike Tea

The reason why most Mormons don't have a copy of the JoD, or why they haven't read many of the books these citations come from, is that the LDS church is quite wily in the arts of censorship and alterating history. I would know, being born into a Mormon family (although I've thankfully been excommunicated). LDS don't like it when people research their faith, and are constantly urging people who mention they've done research to cease doing so immediately. Missionaries also come to one's house and (sometimes feverishly so) mention that they're telling you everythin about the church (my father used to tell missionaries to begin their "lessons" with "We're here to tell you the whole truth about the LDS church...").

Anyway, it's just Mormons. I say we ignore them and let them die out on their own.

Apoptygma:
I am also a member of the Church. Although I do not have all of the answers (what mortal does??), I do know that we have a Father in Heaven who loves all of His children because they are His children, no matter where they are, what color they are, or even what they do(although He is oftened saddened by our actions). "For there is no respect of persons with God" Romans 2:11.
There are some hard questions in this life and this is one of them. I believe that God had His own reasons for not bestowing the Priesthood to blacks until 1978. However, I currently don't know what that reason is. There are some things that God has not chosen to reveal at this present time. But I think that we all will know the answers to these questions some day and we will all see that God has been just.

I was also a missionary for the Church. It is a difficult thing to leave all of your loved ones behind and go to a strange place to talk to people about such a personal and sacred thing as religion. We understand that to some it is bothersome, but when you have something that makes you happy and strengthens your family don't you want to share it with others? This is why we do it. We have received a commandment from God to declare these things to all people. The Gospel of Jesus Christ will bless the life of anyone who chooses to accept it and live it to the best of their ability. It will bring security, peace, love, compassion, joy and every other good thing. It would be selfish to not share this message that brings these things to others, wouldn't it? Please visit the Church's website at (URL removed by moderator)There you will find answers to what we believe and why. God will help you know the truth without any doubts, you just have to ask Him with faith and humility. If I can be of further assistance, let me know.

If you knew enough to fill out your long explanations/complications than why did YOU ask?

p.s. I wrote this for others to see your thirst for contention.

there are absolutely no absolutes

Dear EMRN

I hope you don't mind my familarity in using your initials, only I feel I know you so well. Or is it just your predictable and empty arguments that are familiar?

Had you been following this discussion you would have realised that I did not ask. I simply clarified an answer already given and couched in language designed to obfuscate. Your own reply is designed to distract readers from the main issue by changing the subject from the issue of racism in the Mormon Church to the imagined contentious nature of this correspondent, a classic Mormon ploy. My own answer does not complicate matters at all except for those Mormons who would rather not have people out there know the truth. The sad thing is that at least one member of this string knew full well what I have explained, has confessed as much, yet chose to ignore the truth in favour of some myth while another, in spite of the clarification my answer brought to the discussion, chooses still to go down the "only God knows" blind alley.

Such is the deception of Mormonism.

BTW it is interesting, though depressing, that when challenged Mormons invariably resort to name calling (anti-Mormon!), questioning their interlocutor's motives (as you have done), resorting to mythdirection (ancient Isreal indeed!), or disappearing from the circle of discussion in feigned indignation that anyone should dare call them up to actually give a straight answer. It is a skill, a gift even, to be so adept at avoiding the actual issues.

Mike Tea

Are you certain of that?

Judging by the average size of a mormon family, you're likely to have to wait awhile for that to happen.....

oooops - my previous statement was meant as a reply to Vimes (posting on Dec 15th 2000) regarding waiting for mormons to die out...

oooops - my previous statement was meant as a reply to Vimes (posting on Dec 15th 2000) regarding waiting for mormons to die out...

Man has certainly corrupted many things. God has witheld many many truths from his children. However, over time, allbeit a very long time and only with a great deal of himility and obedience does God confirm and reveal to his children the truths of eternity. These truths are being revealed in the end times of this world. WHere else can you find so much doctrine about so many things? The truth is the more revelations that come raise more questions that the LDS people can often find it hard to defend. This is due in no small part to the fact that explanations have to be understood with a certain context. Often non-LDS have a very hard time getting into the the right context in order to better understand these things. But at the end of the day, it won't matter what any of us write or say, laugh or cry about because He will reveal truths to us only as soon as we are able and willing to accept them. Humility is the key that unlocks the door to eternal progression-not closed mindedness and argument! Love is the key that holds the universe together as all things everywhere honor He who organizes all things for their eternal progression.

I, too was born a member of a "Mormon" family. I served 2 years as a missionary. I investigated every religion from gnostics, to Krishna, to Scientology and everything in between. Here is what I found:

1. Every religion's theology contradicts itself.
a) God says thou shalt not kill and then God turns around and asks them to kill and punishes them when they dont. (see the first 5 books of the bible or first Nephi in the book of mormon)
b) God says thou shalt not bare false witnes and then decieves Jacob, job and a bunch of others (He also tells Nephi to lie in the first book in the book of mormon).
c) Show me any religion and I will show you a sorted past that tests the member's faith.

2. Every major religion wants you to enlist. Mormons have missionaries, but every religion I know of has a way of recruiting.

3. God allowed and even inspired organized religion to appease us. We want to feel a part of something, we want to feel that we are doing the "right" thing. Tell us what to do. God gives us exactly what we ask for. Organized religions that all think they are correct. Each one with a different take on the commandments. Think of the Jews of the old Test. They thirsted for more and more comandments and regulations (see also the first 5 books of the bible for an extensive list). Every one of these religions is correct because they were all created by the same perfect being.

4. Life is a classroom that we helped create for ourselves. There is no test because this is a perfect classroom and we are perfect students. Organized religions are a teaching tool of our creator. Most of them are inspired by our creator to teach each one of us differently. What important lesson are your being taught right now?

5. It is important for some people to find flaws in the doctorine of other religions. While this is also part of the grand "lesson" I would not let it be a major focus of my life. Religion is designed to be flawed (hence the need for faith)--another teaching tool.

The two years I spent as a missionary taught me many things. The first one is: When you are absolutly sure you are right about anything.... you can be very sure that you are not.

Quickly because I have to be somewhere...

Bear false whitness means you will not pervert the WORD of GOD

Bare False Witness means don't lie not "don't pervert the word of God". Although if you are perverting the word of God I guess you would be lying.

False witness does not mean dont lie, in that you are not to pervert the word of GOD, humans cannot help but lie, every human lies, except of corse Jesus, but he is a special case.

If every human lies does that mean that you are lying right now? I am also confused - if "every human lies, except of corse Jesus, but he is a special case" - does this mean that Jesus and God aren't the same anymore. If Jesus is Human how can he be God too?