A Conversation for Mormonism - A Question and Answer Session

Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 41

Pyrex Muse of Unbreakable Space-age Wonder Glass, Student of Life, Keeper of the Seven Keys of Ventuslor

Whatever, I just dont agree with you and you dont agree with me, let us leave it at that.

smiley - hsifsmiley - smileysmiley - fish


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 42

Maurice Deebank

The most obvious answer is usually the correct one, a theory known as Occam's Razor.

The most obvious answer to why racism is hard-wired into the Mormon faith is because the people that developed the faith were racists - as were most white north Americans (and not just North Americans!) at the time, by today's standards anyway, to be fair.

But the dogmatic insistence that these Mormon canonical texts are the literal truth leaves many non-racist mormons with a wee bit of a problem, trying to justify this stance in their religion.

So what do they do? They bury their heads in the sand and say - "God will reveal the answer to all mysteries in his own good time," and "Ours is not to question the word of god."

Thus god is a rampant bigot and a racist.... And should be questioned, don't you people have your own moral code!? Can't you tell right from wrong without having to refer to some prehistoric (old testament), largely irrelevant code of ethics (that insists on circumcision - a very good idea for young men in nomadic desert tribes with more important uses for water than washing their privates - but now irrelevant!) Wake up! It's the 21st century, Jesus ain't coming back! Not now not ever!
The world's falling apart and millions starve and are killed in the name of your religions and all you can argue about is whether you go to 'hell' if you believe this that or the other bit of total irrelevance. Wake up!

Anyway, I used far more exclamation marks than is decent in that last paragraph. Try to love each other a little more... Idiots...

Cheers

Archbishop Deebamk, Church of Dee-entology

PS - God's also a rampant misogynist..... And homophobe, which reminds me, what's the Mormon view of homosexuality? Is it OK as long as your not monogamous?


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 43

Pyrex Muse of Unbreakable Space-age Wonder Glass, Student of Life, Keeper of the Seven Keys of Ventuslor

Wow, you sure put the nail right in the sack, Look many (most) people believe in a higher power. We need it to get through the day, I couldnt have made it without believing in one. People put to much pressure on the finer points, why dont we all just stand back and realize the awsome universe that God made for us. Why he made it, why he made us and what is the point in life, I think I know not. But I feel that beliving in a higer being and loving everyone (yes it is hard at times) is all you have to do. We are not the judge in the final times, so just enjoy your life, live honestly and truthfully try not to lie to others, dont put so much pressure on "the church" simply sharing a quiet moment with your wife or another loved one reflecting on things and praying is all you need, and one last thing... Please dont steal, and always help those in need, donate to a charity even just a dollar every once in a while helps... I donate to Angel Flight, a service for people who cannot afford to fly to specialists across the country to give them medical help, they fly people who are really sick and in danger of loosing their life, and much more. Just do somthing that you belive will help someone, show some love for others of God's creation.


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 44

Researcher 190994

Lets face it - Mormonism is a racist religion that taught for many years that colour in the skin was a mark of divine disfavour and that is was therefore quite all right to be horrible to black people!

This is very different, and very much worse, than the kind of racism that says that non-whites are inferior. they are seen in fact as evil and hateful.

For all the convenient changes in the official line that followed this remains in the Book of Mormon.

So if you are racist, by all means be a Mormon!!

If you are not a racist - but you are a Mormon because Daddy amd Mummy were, then argue round it. A popular line when talking to a person who is not white is to say - but that refers only to Native Americans (if you're talking to anyone but a Native American) or only to a Negroes (if you're talking to anyone but a Negro). What difference this makes I have never quite been able to work out. The fact is that all non-whites were considered the same (i.e. evil) in the sight of God.

Another line is that it is a "difficult problem". It's not. It's very simple. Racism is one of the most uncompromisingly evil things in the world - there is absolutely nothing whatsoever to be said in its favour. For all of the fine qualities found in Mormonism (or at least in many Mormons) this one factor essentially taints any claim for it to be anything other than an immitation religion, with no connection whatsoever with God.


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 45

Researcher 190994

Lets face it - Mormonism is a racist religion that taught for many years that colour in the skin was a mark of divine disfavour and that is was therefore quite all right to be horrible to black people!

This is very different, and very much worse, than the kind of racism that says that non-whites are inferior. they are seen in fact as evil and hateful.

For all the convenient changes in the official line that followed this remains in the Book of Mormon.

So if you are racist, by all means be a Mormon!!

If you are not a racist - but you are a Mormon because Daddy amd Mummy were, then argue round it. A popular line when talking to a person who is not white is to say - "but that refers only to Native Americans" (if you're talking to anyone but a Native American) or "only to Negroes" (if you're talking to anyone but a Negro). What difference this makes I have never quite been able to work out. The fact is that all non-whites were considered the same (i.e. evil) in the sight of God.

Another line is that it is a "difficult problem". It's not. It's very simple. Racism is one of the most uncompromisingly evil things in the world - there is absolutely nothing whatsoever to be said in its favour, there never was, and never will be. For all of the fine qualities found in Mormonism (or at least in many individual Mormons) this one factor remains an awfully good reason for not becomeing a Mormon - and for finding another religion if you are currently a Mormon.


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 46

Researcher 192341

Why are there now so many Black people in the LDS Church?


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 47

Pyrex Muse of Unbreakable Space-age Wonder Glass, Student of Life, Keeper of the Seven Keys of Ventuslor

Good question...


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 48

Insight

Not really to do with Mormonism, but seemed relevant to your discussion nonetheless...

A while after the flood, we are told that due to certain bad things done by Canaan, Noah cursed him and his offspring, saying that he should become a slave to his brothers. Some people have said that the black race is descended from Canaan and that they are therefore inferior. However, there is no real evidence for this (indeed, in all probability everyone on earth is descended from Canaan in some way!)


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 49

Researcher 192341

"...I have to dismiss them"

Yeerrss!

Don't recall Jesus preaching that we should be arrogant, intolerant, and put ourselves above others.



Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 50

Pyrex Muse of Unbreakable Space-age Wonder Glass, Student of Life, Keeper of the Seven Keys of Ventuslor

I am not above them but if they cant leave their crazy mixed up religion out of it I dont really want them around, I am sorry but some people are so thick headed that no matter what you do the only thing is to leave them to their own devices...


smiley - hsifsmiley - smileysmiley - fish


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 51

Researcher 192341

I'm sure they'll miss you.


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 52

Pyrex Muse of Unbreakable Space-age Wonder Glass, Student of Life, Keeper of the Seven Keys of Ventuslor

As I do miss their company.

smiley - hsifsmiley - smileysmiley - fish


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 53

Researcher 192341

That's nice to know. At least you acknowledge that they are OK people - not evil, with horns and a pointed tail.

Then again, if they did, Arthur C Clarke might have had something interesting to say about them ("Childhood Ends")


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 54

Pyrex Muse of Unbreakable Space-age Wonder Glass, Student of Life, Keeper of the Seven Keys of Ventuslor

Screw everyone who dosnt like it... I am not happy.

smiley - hsifsmiley - smileysmiley - fish


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 55

Researcher 192341

Sorry, did not mean to upset you.


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 56

Pyrex Muse of Unbreakable Space-age Wonder Glass, Student of Life, Keeper of the Seven Keys of Ventuslor

Belive in the GRACE of GOD, it is shown in everything, from the Apple, to the Sand dollar, everywhere, THIS couldent JUST happen! I know that no REAL scientist can truly believe that we evolved... The human mind is just to small to understand anything really, so we busy ourselves with things WE think important, THAT is where religion, Terrorism, Politics, and Hatred come from, it is Human nature, We are all Bigots, and I am NOT saying I am better than anyone, What I believe I believe, But I think that GOD said it best, "Wherever two are gathered togeather There am I in the midst"

smiley - hsifsmiley - smileysmiley - fish

AKA WHO CARES ANYMORE

I am not mad, just withdrawn....

Hey... I am MAD at MEN IN BLACK 2 THEY STOLE MY IDEA, that we are so obsorbed in our own known universe we dont see that we are part of somthing BIGGER... IE we are just in a locker and we dont know that anything else exists... BLAHHHH!!!!


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 57

Mark R. Cordell

To be fair Ludwig this does look like back pedalling to me.

Just because most mainstream LDS people don't pay much heed to these scriptures or quotes doesn't mean they didn't exist. And if your leaders were wrong about these issues who knows what else they are wrong about?

When subscribing to any religion you need to look at as much scripture as possible and surely not stick your head in the sand.

This is perhaps the difficulty of the LDS church. The modern church wants to appear a mainstream Christian church but the policies of polygamy (which Smith's first wife never fully accepted), racial restriction, sexism and the (Slightly dodgy) life history of the Prophet Smith won't go away.

I feel there are many positive aspects to Mormonism but I feel not all members really take the time to investigate all aspects of their faith. Did you know their is a different LDS church founded by Joseph Smith's son, who stayed behind in New York instead of following Brigham Young (now named the Community of Christ) with thousands of members? They still own the first ever Temple and Smith's grave.


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 58

Researcher 192341

The LDS Church has the name of Jesus Christ in its title. It does not have to try to be "mainstream"

Typical of most critics you mix facts with fantasy. The "Reforede" LDS Church was fiunded by Emma Smith (Joseph's wife) and his son, because after Jospeh was murdered they felt that the presidency should be inherited by Joseph's line rather than go to someone else, after all that Jospeh had done.

They did not stay in New York, they were in Kirtland, and still own the land the temple was built on. As the temple was burned down and destroyed when the persecuted Mormons were evicted it is a strech to say they still own the temple!


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 59

Pyrex Muse of Unbreakable Space-age Wonder Glass, Student of Life, Keeper of the Seven Keys of Ventuslor

Though I do not agree I can see where they say they still own the temple, though the proper term would be that GOD owns the temple... "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

-1 corinthians 3 16 and 17


Well I'll be a fox in a henhouse.....

Post 60

Meis Geghra

You shouldn't tell em ANYTHING.


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