h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

As most of what Jesus said, "Love thy neighbour" is an extremely useful and intelligent comment. Unfortunately, the majority ignore this one. Most war and hostility is associated with religious conflicts - the good ol' Catholic/Protestant or the Muslim/Jewish. For some reason, people have favoured 'spreading the word' on "Love thy neighbour". This has caused irreversable conflicts.
One of the concepts I actually 'mock' is the Catholic system of forgiveness. I do not see receiting a phrase as the solution to sins as it ends up in individuals committing any old act and then saying "Hail Mary" a couple of times and the Lord forgives. I also cannot respect the heirarchy of either church - I cannot except the pope or the queen as a representative of God on Earth. This goes back to my all-equal view.
Well, some more thoughts unloaded and some new minds stimulated .

One of the things that Jesus also taught was that we should treat each other like representatives of God on Earth, so you are right - we are *all* representatives of Him here. Being an Episcopalian, I don't really treat the words of the Queen or the Pope as gospel either. I am, however, impressed with the current Pope as a man. John Paul II is a remarkable person who has brought about much good. And he has a great sense of humor too!

Perhaps the holiest man I have ever met was Bishop Desmond Tutu. He is remarkable for his ability to forgive. I think that I would take religious advice from him, because he is - to me - the living embodiment of the Christian ideal. Amazing person!

I agree with the problem of absolution of faith through repeating phrases. Originally, I think this was done as a punishment for the sin, but now its just become an easy way out of trouble. The person who sinned should have to be truly sorry for their sin before they can be forgiven - otherwise its just a very hollow apology. My father leads a rosary service every Sunday, not as a punishment for anyone, but as a renewal of faith. This makes much more sense to me.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this all made sense!

good thoghts there. My own about the Catholic church are that it has become some what paganized. I know this sounds crazy but think about it. In the bible it says that you are to pray to the LORD God only and yet once a person becomes a "saint" of something you pray to them for that and then they take it to God. I'm not sure why this would be except to take pressure off the big guy but if creating the universe didn't phase him why woul prayer. That in and of itself isn't a very terrible thing but in order to here every prayer directed at them they would have to be omnipotent which would make them gods too. Or do they miss some in which case wouldn't that miss the whole point of praying to them in the first place. And also they pray to Mary "the blessed mother". Now it doesn't make any sense to pray to her at all. The emaculate conception refers only to Jesus, not her as catholics claim. It say nothing about her at all until she is pregnant. any views on this? tell me.

i'm sorry. my views on mary are clear in my head but when i looked at what i wrote they looked garbled. Mary was a very kind woman, but not a god. the bible says she was given a gift it doesn't say she was made the comparable wife of god or that she was made part of the trinity when she got involved. that 's what i meant. It also doesn't say any thing about praying to anyone other than God. sorry.

Observation 1:--can we move this forum...? It's gotten terribly long, and experience shows me that my browser tends to crash in very long forums.

Observation 2: Most of you must be English: You sure do apologize an awful lot!!! Look, everyone here is passionate about our beliefs (or we wouldn't be here.) We've made the choice to continue the conversation, knowing we have differing views. We are all intelligent adults, and none of us should be worried about stepping on toes.

I agree with Psyduck about the unfortunate fact that many people have ranked "Spread the word" as more important than "Love thy neighbor".

Now, to answer some questions. Let me try to hit on the important ones (and if I missed anyone, please ask again. There are TONS of postings. Which is A Good Thing.)

There was one in there about positive versus negative energy (in the spiritual sense). The Chinese refer to it as Yin and Yang, psychologists will call it a life force and a death force, I think Nietzche had something to say about it as well, but it's been a few years since I had a philosophy course.... Anyway, some cultures portray it as light and dark, Christianity portrays it as God and the Devil. And in all philosophies but the last, there is no judgement placed on the two, one is not seen as better than the other. Positive energy is productive, life-affirming, straightforward. Negative energy is the type that makes you sit down and breathe, the type that makes you spend a whole day in bed just because. It's necessary to find a balance between the two. The Chinese portray it with that familiar black-and-white swirly symbol. Think of it like this: you have a really really bad case of the flu, and part of you wants to crawl under your covers and never come out. You don't even have the energy to make yourself something to eat, you could sleep and sleep and never wake up. Death force has set in. But part of you knows you need to eat, you need to take a shower, you need to get yourself up and about. Life force. Too much of one means you stay in bed and starve. Too much of the other means you don't get the rest you need, and you stay sick. So one is not better than the other, and the balance between the two is all-important. Depression is too much negative energy. Type-A, go-get-em at all costs personality is too much positive energy.

I could go on for hours (and I often do. Haha). But now I need to eat. Anyway, I want to say that it is great that so many people are willing to stand up and be heard. Political correctness has made too many people afraid to stand up for their beliefs. And I would rather be in a roomful of people who are passionate about something that I DON'T agree with completely than a roomful of people who I agree with, who have nothing to say. Obviously.

One thought to ponder while I break for dinner: Most of the Old Testament is written in verse, not prose. Can anyone tell me (honestly) of one major work in history that was written in verse and meant to be taken literally? Verse is normally read as symbolic. Yet when it comes to the Bible, we tend to interpret it literally. Someone mentioned the fact that evolution closely matches most of the creation myths. I couldn't agree more. Every culture has a creation myth, and they are all similar. A myth is not a "lie". It is a colorful story used to explain a larger truth. But, again, EVERY culture has a creation myth. Why is ours "true" and all the others "false"?

Just something to ponder...

Peace and love.

Ooh-hoo, Rogue, you brought up a point I wanted to make. Yes, Christianity has become very paganized. It clearly states in the Old Testament (and probably the new) that we are meant to pray only to God, not to "lesser gods" or idols. Last time I checked, a statue was an idol...

As for Mary. Heheeee, my feminist genes kick in on that one. The Church is actually considering excommunicating many of the South American Churches due to the "Cult of the Virgin Mary." You see, in all religions except the major Western ones (The "Big Three" of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam), there is a major female goddess. There is a human need to worship the feminine as well as the masculing. (The faithful will now chastize me and tell me that God is neither male nor female, but YOU try looking at a picture of some old guy with a beard and imagining the feminine lurking in there).

Before the understanding of the idea of conception, most ancient cultures saw women as being responsible for creation. Imagine what a miracle and a mystery birth must seem with no scientific knowledge!! And then there was the fact that women were seen as powerful because they bled every month without suffering injury. Then along came Judaism, and said "you must do away with your female god-figures." Christianity did them one better by literally destroying all the temples and all those little fat nakes stone dolls that you may have seen picture of.

Well, basically monotheistic religion was forced on these people against their wills (i.e "The Holy Wars"), so they latched on to the Virgin Mary as a way to satisfy their need to worship the feminine powers in the universe.

(Disclaimer: Most of this is historical fact, and is passed on without judgement....)

And now, dinner for real...

(I need spell-check on this thing...)

i'm too tired to talk about this much anyomre today other than to say that we have almost completely gotten off the subject of love thy neighbor, mostly by fault of my own. Oops. and second I myself am neither english nor an adult so that blows up observation #2. see ya people later. God be with you.

BTW, ddombrow is pretty much right on with the wave analogy; that would sum up a good deal of what I believe.Interestingly, a lot of science fiction (of which I admittedly haven't read much) is based more on Eastern philosophy than Western religion. But replace the word "wave" with the word "God" and you will see that the two aren't so far apart in their core beliefs.

Hmm...................

All I have to say is,

I therefore I am.

Well said, ScifiBloke. In response to some earlier comments, I will say that the spreading the word and loving thy neighbor need to come in the same package. If you love your neighbor you will want to tell him about Jesus. The problem is really those who focus on the spreading of the word without love (which I might add, doesn't usually work out to well). I'm confident that the SmartyFish has a rather cool verse to go along with that.

SmartyFish: Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Here I am, Friday night and I'm online. (sigh)
ddombrow, I do have an interesting response to your problem of the father who tells his child to clean his room. If I told MY child to clean her room, and she did everything BUT clean her room (all those nice things you mentioned) I would probably ask her why she chose to not respond as I intended. And in asking ,I would realize the problem: I TOLD her to clean her room. Obviously, she's a good child, as she did all those other things to help me out. But I gave her an order, and (being my child) she doesn't respond well to orders (except in life-and-death situations). Had I asked her nicely if she might not clean her room, she (being a good child) would probably have done it. But, as I don't have children, it's all hypothetical. I cannot know what I haven't experienced.

(smile) You and I were obviously raised differently. I never heard the words "mind your mother" (or father). I was never told "Don't talk back". I was raised to not be afraid to ask, I was raised to distrust those who make demands. Leave me the options, and I will do what I can for you. Make a demand, and I will back away. Ever have a cat? Tell her to come and she walks away, tail in the air. Sit around quietly, and she'll purr in your lap or at your feet for hours. I've found that people are like that, too.

I hate to be assertive, but things were gettin out of hand. Movin this discussion to "Christians on H2G2" sound good. Well, if it doesn't, I guess I made a new conversation for nothing. Oh well.

I would just love to be one of the H2G2 Christians. I have heard so much about you! As the good book says. . . well, you already know what the good book says. Why should I tell you?

To the new home of "Christians (and assorted whatnot) on H2G2." Shorter download times!!! The same witty banter you have come to know and love!!! Free beer!!! Great sex!!!!

Erm, well, maybe not the last two....

So, here's the link (I hope). If it doesn't work, follow the links via my home page, or ddombrow's.

http://www.h2g2.com/forumframe.cgi?forum=26091&thread=31716

Click and be merry, or I'll be forced to send personal invitations to you all.

Life's a and then you marry one!

You wanna be like the son of god?
Just take the hammer and act odd!

You do realize that we've moved...? I wouldn't want anyone to think they're just being ignored...

"Most of the Old Testament is written in verse, not prose."

No. Most of the New Testament was written as letters and memoirs. It was converted to verse at the behest of one of the early Popes.