h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I'm interested in the recent discovery that Jesus may have had a wife. I'm also interested in how Christians see this, does it change their view of Jesus? Or do you feel that if it's not gospel then it isn't genuine?

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/jesus-had-wife-newly-discovered-gospel-suggests-202727064.html

Probably the same way that they would about the probabillity that his father was married to, and having a sexual relationship with a 13 year old.

In denial that this could POSSIBLY be true.

PP.

interesting way to phrase the question given the forum

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

....Honestly! Does it make it any less true that the world would be a better place if people started loving their neighbours a bit more?
...Instead of jumping on any and every occasion you get to try and tell them they're idiots because they believe in something that you don't believe in (or vice versa, because they don't believe in something you believe in).

Well said Frenchie!

The campaign for a smiley starts here

Yay superfrenchie!

I don't doubt that Z is merely wanting to stimulate
some conversation but superfrenchie makes a larger
point that the we are in a whirled of doubt, cynicism,
and bickering and have no moral compass, no love and
no trust.

A better question might be, what idea or situation or
film or instiitution have you encountered in the past
decade which offers us any sense of hope, trust or
belief in a common good.

God bashing and hate mongering are our currency.

I heard a song last night with the lyric:

"So many religions; so little love."

It rang true and touched my agnostic heartstrings
in a way not felt since the 1960s when songs were
also about the sad state of affairs but were layered
with a hope that we might (shall) overcome.


Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya!


~jwf~

How is this a recent discovery - I haven't read the link yet - but I've known for years that his wife was converted to the 'prostitute' Mary Magdalene by early church leaders to stop cults of female worship and keep everything under the control of the Bishops.

Also he had brothers (one was called James I believe) who led factions of his religion after his death.

This is all quite well known isn't it?

Yes, Orc this argument has raged for millenia,
especially heating up over issues of celibacy
and virginity and assorted forms of purity.

The 'new' news is a recent general agreement among scholars
that a parchment fragment is an authentic 3rd century document
and been translated as a quote attributed to Jesus in which he
refers to "My wife" and "She shall be my disciple."


~jwf~

Yes I went to the link afterwards.

I believe the dead sea scrolls are good source for some of what I said too.

As far as I'm aware most (good) theologans are pretty open about the twisting of things by the early leaders such as Saul/Paul and the expunging of may of the old testaments by the Council of Nicea and such.

But then I don't move in such circles nor pay much attention to it so I could be wrong.

Frankly, I've spoken to a lot of Christians over the years, of all different stripes from Bible literalists to actual atheists who go through the motions out of habit. And everywhere in between....

But none of them, that I can remember, has ever insisted on Jesus' unmarried status as a central (or even a peripheral) principle of their faith.

I'd say most would agree with superfrenchie - ie., who cares?

Jesus got to the age f 30 before starting to preach, so it would seem entirely logical that he had a wife. It was only Paul who stated that celibacy was the way to go.

But yes, I'd say it's a bit like Jesus having brothers and/or sisters. It would make sense, and it in no way detracts from his message.

Wasn't Paul Jesus's "friend"?

Doubt it...I don't think he was even a Christian while Jesus was still alive.

Paul didn't like women anyway, so it's probably natural that he cut them out of everything.

Hey PP, do you need more tar? Bigger brush?

Mrs. D is Christian and said pretty much verbatim what Vip said. Because, you know, it turns out not all Christians stubbornly insist the whole Bible is literal truth.

Well the whole story of Christianity is quite rich with questions about the translatability of various terms..

I seem to remember that "Honest to God" in the 1960s tackled some of these like just what was meant by "virgin" in various languages and cultures.. I am not sure that "Vestal virgins" were required to be celibate, or merely of such purity that, as with the "Ranters and Ravers", what might have been sinful in another context, became "a non-sin".

And when I am in France my French wife is most commonly referred to merely as my "woman" or "femme" rarely 'mon epouse': and there are lots of relationships in which someone could be someone's "woman" without actually being their wife.. I wonder whether Egyptian Coptic is more accurate than Egyptian hieroglyphics. It was of some professional interest to me to know that the Egyptians had only one word for both "to beat" and "to teach".

But putting such things aside, what or who do we mean by "Jesus".

The Gospels are based upon a very short career of ministry apparently when he was about 30, and a career that led to his death. What the Gospels tell us is that Jesus at this time said that he had no mother or father, or any other family, brothers, sisters,cousins etc-, when quite obviously he had had all of these. Of course as the eldest son of Joseph and Mary, and Joseph being already quite old, it is often assumed that Joseph died and Jesus not only would have been unable to "set himself up" as an independent carpenter in his own right, and therefore take on the extra-responsibilities of a wife of his own, but he would have had to assume the responsibilities of an eldest son and older brother, until his sibblings could take up the burden.

Such things are not totally "a thing of the past". I saw a report recently on the terrorist bomb of 7/7 ,which interviewed the son of an engineer who was killed on that day. He was 17 and devastated at his loss. But he realised that his father would have expected him to be "the man of the family" for his mother and sister. He was about 17 and due to take his driving test the next day. His mother suggested that he should put it off. He refused, and when he returned having passed, he told his mother that he had been determined to give her some reason to smile again.

So at the most Jesus would have had an ex-wife, just as he had an ex-mother . As my parents-in-law know from living under military occupation, and many other people across time and space, when you are going to do something that turns you into "Public enemy number one" as far as the establishment is concerned, it is sensible and considerate to distance yourself from those who might be targetted for their association with you.

Cass

Jesus being married doesn't undermine any of the fundamental tenets of Christianity, does it? Though any kids would cause some theological issues: would they, like their papa, be god?

Mary as a disciple is more problematic for the Church, particularly the Catholic Church.

Thanks to the discovery of long-lost documents at Nag Hammadi in 1945, there are plausible grounds for thinking Mary Magdalene was Jesus' wife as well as his disciple. She even has her own gospel. If a grave site in Jerusalem turns out to be Jesus' grave, then he had not only a wife but a son.

I know many people who happen to be Roman Catholics. It would be problematic for many of them if the Virgin Mary were proven to have had more children after she gave birth to Jesus.

Which Catholic church? Are there not quite a few of them?