h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Let me set the scene...
We're on an urban train and there are two women sitting up one end with 3 absolutely out of control children running around. Its 11.30 at night, so really the kids should be in bed - they're tired and they're trouble. At one point the elder child (about 7 years old) runs down the carraige and throws a quarter of a mug of coke over a number of strangers. The mother does nothing...and not wanting to make a scene nor do the wetees. I just got to thinking - what would I do if they'd splashed me...
Any ideas?

Picked yourself up, brushed yourself off and started all over again?
You certainly can't touch them, even by way of restraint.
"Come over and sit by me and I'll tell you a story and if you don't want that drink,darling, I'll have it. My throat's like the bottom of a parrot's cage ad nauseam" This will either fascinate them and they'll shut up and listen, in which case you have to tell them a story or they'll run back to their mammies ,who will look daggers at you. In either case they shut up.
Seriously, I'd have said."Give us the drink before you spill it" and let them run up and down but then, as you know, I talk to strange people on trains.

(I bump into you all over the place, and... you seem familiar. You're not my mum, are you??? )
That is good.
But what if you're a grumpy old git like me. Ask the mother for their name and address and tell them you'll send the dry cleaning bill?
Tell the kid to be more careful. Not much you can do in a case like that, since the "damage" is done.

But there are other occasions, like if you see a child doing something to hurt someone (or you). Then what do you do? I saw a 7 year old (ish, i'm not good at guessing children's ages) punching his baby (about 6 months old) in the face. The mother was yakking with a friend, accross the road. So, I held the boy's hand and called for the mother to control him a bit - the baby was really screeching. But then, what's the point? It will happen again when I'm not there. And what about if the child is scratching cars? or annoying an old person? Or just generally being incredibly annoying and loud?

I think any response, no matter how odd, would reward the behaviour - as I think there was an attention defecit thing going on.

I am married to the World's most intollerant man and therefore my four sons are extremely well behaved. I work on the basis if I can control my (extremely lively) sons, everyone else should do the same. If I feel the children are basically neglected and desperate for attention I would probably give them some attention. However, if I feel the children are just little thugs out to annoy everyone I would shout (and have done so) like a woman crazed, it never fails - children will always show healthy respect for someone who is even more out of control than them - and all the passengers on the train will be quietly thankful that you have just done what they wanted to.

I'm afraid the teacher in me would out and I would say in my 'teacher voice' "Be careful!".If they then persisted I would speak to the parents and ask them to control their darlings.I would persist with the parents until they do something about their children.If they gave me drivel about how kids are kids I would point out that other people can and do control their own children.

This may all seem petty but I believe we get the society we have because we won't act when things become unpleasant for fear of creating unpleasantness.Some parents are just bad parents but that is no reason not to make them be better parents by insisting they control their brats.This in turn makes life better for everyone in the long run.

I didn't want to give you the full story all at once 'cause it might skew the reactions, but...

One of the ladies who had been splashed did go up and talk to one of the women minding the kids. The woman did nothing at all, just gave a resigned shrug and said to the kid "Will you apologise to those people". The kid said "No" and flipped into a bit of a tantrum and it was sort of left like that. Then when the four ladies were getting off, the whole lot - kids and minders jeered at them...

Then I would have said something. Very loudly to the ladies who had been splashed like how they were probably relieved to be getting away from the hooligans in the corner.

Duncan,

Since I have read that a woman talked to the women looking after the children and they did nothing then I suggest a more subtle approach. If the drink got on you, you scream like a Zulu warrior, stand up and make a scene while brushing yourself off. Speaking only to yourself in a load and irritated tone, emote about the behavior of the children and the incompetence of the parents. You may even want to invoke a few colorful adjectives, maybe calling into question their genetic makeup. Then move to a seat that is closer to the women and draw them into a conversation about bad the children of today are and how the parents are to blame. (not knowing that they are the parent, of course )

Mostly

Richard and I were involved in the opposite situation (sort of). We were in the cafe at Beaulieu Motor Museum. A family sat down at the table next to ours and the son was careless and knocked our table, spilling our drinks. As he looked about 12, and therefore old enough to be responsible for his own actions, we asked him to be a bit more careful. His father then got upset and said that if we weren't happy with his son's behaviour we should talk to him (the father), not his son.

In the case of younger children, I *would* talk to the parents or whoever seems to be in charge. If I didn't get a good response, and if my clothing had been 'damaged' by the child's actions, I would ask for their name and address so that I could send them the cleaning bill. I was taught to be well-behaved in public when I was a child, so I expect other people's children to be well-behaved. If the parents can't control their children, the parents should have to face the consequences for their children's actions.

If the parents won't discipline the kids, take the initiative. Children always take notice of someone much larger than they admonishing them, and it will affect their behavior. If mother gets upset, then mother needs a dose of healthy admonishment as well.

Not that I ever have to rationalize this sort of thing... someone spills stuff on me, I instantly turn to swearing, and it makes no difference to me who it happened to be.

I agree with Cheerful.
Parents are responsable for their children and should be held acountable. There are far to many children out there running amuck as their parrents sit by watching. I can't tell you how many times I've seen it and wanted to put one of these kids over my knee, then thought better of it and wanted to put the parrent over my knee.

Now, I don't have children but when I was growing up we (Me, my two brothers and a sister) were never hit or spanked but we did have fear instilled upon us that if we did get out of line we were going to get a smack. My mother had this huge wooden spoon, and when she got pissed at us she would slap it on the table with a thounderous clap, and start counting 1... 2... She never did get to three by that time we were either behaving, appologizing, or running for our lives. My father did basicly the same thing but with a belt.

Basicly what I'm saying is that children need disiplin and to be tought respect for other people. Bad kids come from parents that just don't care enough to teach there children right from wrong and punish them when they do something wrong.

BTW... What is this "time out" Bull Sh*t I always hear pollitically correct parrents saying to their kids. Wow big threat. My parent just said "If you keep that up, You're going to get a smack!" and we stoped.

*Zorph gets off soapbox*

OK, but what do you do if there are no parents around? I once drove with my mother (a retired nurse) past a couple of 8 or 9 year olds viciously banging another's head against a brick wall. We decided to intervene and my old mum waded in, gave the bullies a serious talking to and wanted to drag them in front of their parents except the victim's need for medical attention took higher priority. Surely there are circumstances where you have to do something.

I´m amazed at the headline, is there even a question there? You can´t just let children do whatever they want when their parents are not around, you have to do something. But don´t ask me what Sadly there is no test you have to take to become a parent, so you can easily encounter a parent like the one in the subway. And in that case complaining to the parents don´t work, I say start yelling at the children to stop and stuff like that. But in many cases people are overreacting, while they should simply let children be children. I mean, the children in the subway for example, were they a nuisance to anyone or were they just running around playing, when one of them accidently spilled? But some of you ppl´s view on how to discipline children realy shows how many parents doesn´t want children, but little soldiers. You ppl ought to seek help, there is such a thing as an individual, remember that. I personally want a kid that knows right and wrong, not one that simply doesn´t steal an apple because it fears for it´s life.

Children also need to be taught the difference between proper and improper behavior in public. Children will be children, but running and playing on a moving train and dumping drinks on passengers is not to be accepted, by anyone. Doing so is not an expression of "individualism", it's a symbol of the children's lack of education in acceptable behavior and respect for others. I've always been one to look the other way and let kids be kids, but a child without limits grows up to be an adult without limits.

And for the record, my mother was always complimented on how well behaved myself and my brothers were in public as children. It was a point of pride for her, and it was for me, as well.

I agree with the Colonel. I don't want children to be 'little soldiers'. They don't even have to be perfectly behaved in public (even though my sister and I always were). I simply feel that children should be taught that certain types of behaviour are acceptable and others aren't. Running around and playing in an open space, or even in the streets (if their parents *want* them to be knocked down by a passing car) is fine. Running around and playing on a train or any enclosed place (shop, restaurant, whatever) is not. Ditto any kind of careless action, especially if there is the likelihood of causing any kind of damage. I also feel that children aren't taught enough respect for other people's property, otherwise they wouldn't be so careless.

I was on a long distance train journey with my then 2 and 6 year olds. The third passenger at the table for four was an elderly lady, so impressed with my sons' impeccable behaviour that she bought me a drink. That was the best G&T I've ever had.
The then 6 year old started this thread, to get back to which... you cannot put a hand on anyone, child or adult unless you are saving life. You can put on your schoolmarmish voice, but that will probably get you jeered at. I think I would talk very loudly to try and draw attention to the offending parents and hope that next time they might pay a bit of attention to their offspring. I agree that they (the offspring) are trying to get attention and am constantly amazed at the number of parents who start off for a day out without something to amuse the children and who are also not prepared to talk to those children for hours at a time,which is why I suggested talking to the kids (partly)
I write as one who sometimes prevents people on crowded trains from spitting, which is more difficult I think.

Î had to laugh at the "little soldiers" thing, because that is exactly how my father treated us (as a Regimental Sergeant Major in the Household Cavalry, bless him, he didn't know any better!!!!). But... He was (still is) the bestest dad ever. Running around with us, playing with us (amazed some of our neighbours who only knew him as the Sergeant major), making wigwams in the garden and cooking our dinner on a fire... etc. etc. My mum was the same. But, in public god help us if we misbehaved. (which was never). When we went anywhere where it was necessary to be quiet, we always took a book, maybe a quiet game or something else to keep us amused. If it was somewhere where other kids would be, we were (under conditions) allowed to play with them. We were to show consideration for others at all times, and not stoop to bad manners just because others did. We were always the kids chosen to shake hands with that day's visiting Royal (yuk!) because we could be counted on not to have wiped our snotty noses on our gloves!

I can't understand how parents can let their kids run riot, and then be surprised when someone complains. Self-discipline and respect for others are the biggest lessons to be learned/taught. And it's never too late. And the politically correct parents of today are probably the kids of the so-called hippie parents of yesterday (and I say so-called because my Mum was a hippie - a proper one - and she believes in "proper" behaviour). Which just goes to show. Something, but I can't quite think what.

Yup, some of us "so-called hippies" did a good job. I think it's our grandchildren's generation that's being complained about,though. We spent a huge amount of time talking to our kids ( far more time than our parents did with us,I think)

The sad thing is that kids can be so interesting. If the parents don't talk to them (and obviously it's impossible, not to say not the done thing to speak to your siblings ) and they don't talk to each other (no time because they're on the play station or mugging a granny) and their teachers don't talk to them (because they're off sick with a nervous breakdown, or because the class is too big and noisy)... who is talking to these kids?

I make it a point to speak to my kids (mostly because otherwise they won't learn English) every single day, and when they don't want to talk, I read to them and hope it goes in. But I'm a paragon of a mother, obviously

BTW: how do you stop people spitting on trains? From what I remember of HK plastic clothing was advised because of the culture of spitting.