h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

In response to encouragement from jwf, I have taken one of the subjects mentioned in the Thought-Provoking Survey #42 thread and expanded on it.

To adopt the attitude of “Trust no one” seems to me to be a very negative way to approach relationships with other people. It may be that such an attitude has come about through bitter experience. But because one person or a group of people have shown themselves to be untrustworthy, it is foolish to apply the same criteria to everyone. If you trust no one, no one will trust you. To go through life never having somebody trust you is a sad state of affairs.

I tend to trust individuals until they give me reason not to or there is some obvious reason not to. It’s a matter if judgement which is fallible. We go through life making judgements, some more important than others. Occasionally we get it wrong. Mostly we get it right and the older we get, hopefully more often we get it right.

There may be those that argue that trust has to be earned. But how do you earn trust? To earn trust, you have to be put in a position of trust which means that someone has to trust you in order for you to demonstrate that the trust is well placed. A person cannot earn trust, but they can show they are not to be trusted.

If you put your trust in another, it is almost inevitable that they will return the trust. Any relationship, whether it is between lovers, friends, family or professional colleagues will be stronger if all participants feel that they can trust each other. Occasionally that trust may prove to be unfounded. But then, that’s life, no one ever said it is perfect. However, the benefits to be gained from mutual trust are far outweighed by problems of having a trust betrayed.

As for betraying a trust that someone has put in me is not something I would do. I trust that people I come into contact will have the same attitude.

Donald

I tend to trust people.
Ocasionally I've been wrong too but on the whole its worked ok.
If you always adopt a suspicious attitude to people you'll end up a lonely and bitter person, because who is going to want to be the friend or lover of a person who want trust them.

I, too, like to trust people. But when your trust has been abused, and you find out you've been lied to, (on a grand scale - my solicitor said "It's not small stuff, is it?") then I think it's impossible to regain trust.
It all depends on the individual situation and what other factors are involved (would you trust a reformed thief to mind your valuables) - and in a relationship, whether there are children to consider, or elderly parents, etc.

I don't want to be lonely and/or bitter, but it'll be a huge step for me to trust someone implicitly again.

Then again, if I met someone new, I'd trust them until they abused that trust, or I found them out in a lie.

Honesty is always the best policy, even if it hurts.
(This is my personal opinion, I respect others' views).

Many years ago I read a quotation, source now unknown, that I have always remembered. "Cynicism is the only healthy emotion." It has stood me in good stead. It sometimes means taking an unpopular stand point but so be it.

I have very good emotional/social antenna that I have come to trust more and more over the years. Useful when building teams and proven reliable too many times to ignore. Or maybe it's just practice. However, as you get older you do not have the luxury of time to rectify misjudgements, hence trusting becomes riskier. But, the old grow dependent and therefore have to trust more. If that trust is betrayed it then generates biterness. I have noticed that old people can become selfish to the point of rudeness. Maybe it is the result of misplaced trust.

Some people have called me a cynic - I prefer to think of myself as a realist. I generally hope for the best, but am prepared to be let down. As GB says, when your trust has been abused once, in however minor a way, you become wary.

Is there a difference between reliability & untrustworthiness? I'm thinking that someone might be reliable in the sense of doing a set task or turning up on time, but might not be trusted to look after valuables.

There are so many kinds of trust e.g. in someone performing their trade or profession for you, confidential information shared, asking someones opinion of how you look.

Most of us learn quickly how well we can trust people we know. We can check references in the case of employment. In an emergency we may have to trust a stranger.

Fancy meeting you all here!

>> There are so many kinds of trust..<<

Yes! It's a huge issue.
We've seen that it can be applied to at least as many different situations as the number of people who have already posted, from intimate love relationships to the security of valued property. (Some might argue that the heart is the most valued property we have .)

So far everyone seems to have had some experience that causes them now to be more suspicious and initially less trustful of others to some extent, and it seems that age (the accumulation of experience) will eventually result in a complete lack of trust in others.


There is also the legal form of Trust, a complex financial arrangement where assets are 'entrusted' to a third party for safe keeping.

Here, especially in matters of wills and the settlement of estates for example, the word seems almost ironic because all parties concerned are often seeking only to somehow profit at the expense of the Trust. And even charitable Trust Funds are famous for suffering from all manner of abuse, nepotism and fraud.

Interesting that the word 'reliability' came up so quickly. In that example a clear distinction was made by showing that an untrustworthy thief may well be obliged to behave reliably in order to betray our trust. Otherwise I would have thought the words were almost synonomous. Now it seems that reliability is just one of the ways the untrustworthy will gain our trust so they can betray it.

Do we assume too much then and put too much faith in our ability to read the signs of trustworthiness? We look for - a friendly smiling face, reliability, punctuality, cleanliness, tidiness, eye-contact, relaxed posture, good manners, conversational skill, impressive resumes, a warm handshake, a gentle demeanour, an absence of visible deadly weapons, a uniform, a badge or other credentials, good grooming, an apparent popularity or supposedly established good reputation.

Can we assume that all of the above signs are potentially corruptible and false signals? Why do we see almost all of them in politicians, doctors, car salemen and real estate agents? Shouldn't the presence of so many positive signs be a warning in itself? And are there any really 'reliable' signs of Trust to be found in human behaviour? Is there anything we can count on to be a true demonstration of Trustworthiness?


~jwf~

Trust.
A very difficult subject to be dispassionate about as it is so emotive, and it is a very lucky person who has not had their trust tested, or even 'tried their luck' because of trust.

I know I have had my trust abused on many occasions, but still stick to the tried and tested '3 strikes and you're out' rule.
If the trust is breached, the first occasion was 'accidental', the second an 'oversight' and the third was intentional. Few people have had a fourth.

>>a friendly smiling face, reliability, punctuality, cleanliness, tidiness, eye-contact, relaxed posture, good manners, conversational skill, impressive resumes, a warm handshake, a gentle demeanour, an absence of visible deadly weapons, a uniform, a badge or other credentials, good grooming, an apparent popularity or supposedly established good reputation.<<

Some form or measure is needed otherwise how can trustworthiness be measured? Would an employer take on anyone just by appeareance? Or a bank give you that Mortgage. That person a £10:00 note that you'll get back next week? Oh yes, I've had Mr. Sincere take my address and £10:00 after a 4 day training course, only never to see it again. I do use character analysis, appearance and/or references to build trust on. Mistakes do get made, but that is true of life in general. By using this policy I seem to still maintain a feeling of trust, and it seems to rub off on others.

In a similar vein I also use Charles Kingsley's 'Do as you would be done by' principle as life's yard stick. This is a different form of trust in that if I act in a certain way, the recipient will reciprocate. Whether that happens or not is down to the individual. In the main it seems to but some people are so thickskinned nothing would work.

JWF
I'm a trustee in my fathers estate
Hopefully none of the trustees in it are hoping to make a profit at my mothers expense

Hmm, trust is an interesing one. I thought I'd learned over time that no one was to be trusted. Then I decided I didn't like not trusting and being trusted, and so made some errors in judgement and trusted the wrong sorts of people. I have learned a lot more about trust as I've grown older.

I think some people mistake blind faith or naivete as trust. Trust maybe can't be earned, but needs to be given freely. But, it can be lost. And it's very difficult, if not impossible, to earn back once betrayed.

If anything I've just learned to be discerning and careful in whom I choose to place my implicit trust... yet give everyone the benefit of the doubt until given reason to feel otherwise. It is true that it's nearly impossible to trust someone who doesn't trust you, so I've taken that chance a lot over the past few years. While I've been let down, disappointed, and hurt by a few people during that time, the close, trusting friendships and a healthy, loving relationship more than make up for the misses.

<> (Donald)

I tend to do the opposite - not trust people until it is clear that they have no sort of 'hidden agenda' going on. Which I don't think makes me cynical, just very careful. Coming from a background which included childhood abuse (and unfortunately this is not all that uncommon) being betrayed by one's parents has to be one of the most traumatic experiences a child can have and it will colour how they look at people for probably the rest of their lives.

<> (Donald)

Nor I, and I think specifically because I know how valuable trust is and how it is often impossible to regain trust in someone once it is lost. A careless word can destroy a relationship (be it a friendship, a couple situation, with children, etc). So I am often shocked at how careless people often are with their words. Because even when one is able to forgive, one can never truly forget.

<> (Donald)

I truly wish I could share your attitude. Because frankly, not being able to trust easily is a bu**er.


az

I think of trust as dangerous when black and white lines are drawn to trust or not.

Sort of like truth it has other things thrown into the mix.
People have degrees of trust and trustworthiness.
There are circumstancial areas of trust.

There might even be people you trust to make wrong choices for you.
I have a friend whose taste in a "good movie" helps keep me from wasting my time on the same ones! We do not agree.

It can be a comfort to know you cannot trust some one because it is familiar, expected and known to you. It takes less energy to know that than to be guessing.

Trusting a person with certain things does not always mean you trust them in all times. There is communication and life views and other factors that can color trust. You can fool yourself or lie to yourself,pick a person to trust telling you the truth as they see it.
Some you can trust to not ever intentionally hurt you. Those two truths and trusts may conflict.

Learning to trust yourself is the most valuable kind to rely on and it keeps on giving through example and it attracts others who do.
IMO it's the ultimate comfort to be around a person you trust, who also trusts themselves.

I Trust that I may make some mistakes

Trusting others is also about how much one trusts oneself to be able to cope with any failure on the part of others, cope with the way that could make you feel about yourself, cope with any paranoia you may experience or cope with heartbrake and a myriad other things... if you see what I mean.

Hi folks! Wow, what a topic!!

I happen to have huge problems with trusting people. I have had my trust and good-will monstrously betrayed in the past, and on several different occasions and in different manners. 'Humanity' has let me down, and terribly. I have developed an almost extreme degree of distrust and cynicism. I am extremely wary of starting new friendships and in fact I live a very cloistered life as a result. I guess this is not a good way to live, but then again, whenever I go out on the odd occasion, I simply have to look around me to see the terrible things humans do to themselves and each other and the whole world around them. Every time I let down my defenses, I receive, so to speak, a sharp kick in the sensitive parts. It's tremendously hard to maintain goodwill and trust. I guess I am somewhat of a masochist because I keep on coming back for more punishment. I really *do* want to find people that I can really trust. The way I see it, though, 'society' at large doesn't put much emphasis on trustworthiness and it's consequently a rare thing to find truly trustworthy people.

In my case it is true that I can also not trust myself! I can't trust myself to cope with all sorts of things. I feel like my sanity is hanging from a ragged thread. I wouldn't advise other people to trust *me* very far in fact ... but for what it's worth if somebody really puts trust in me, I would try like hell to live up to that trust, because trust is indeed such a rare and precious thing.

Right now however I guess I'm still working on building myself an incedibly thick and strong 'emotional suit of armor' to protect me for the next time I venture out again ... I *will* keep on trying to trust but for now I'll only trust people in matters where they can cause me minimal damage if they betray that trust.

Is distrust always a bad thing? Doesn't this depend on some sort of evaluation of the trustworthiness of people in general, and the risks involved if they should break that trust? One might not go so far as to say 'Trust Nobody', but how about 'Do not trust anybody with an *absolute* trust'?

Interesting thread indeed.
to the Donald!

One thing not mentioned so far is the whole area of trust in machines and gadgets and public services. Pedestrian bridges that collapse, trains that derail, brake failures, contaminated water supplies, that sort of thing.

For me, the first time I ever felt that choking doubt of mistrust of things was the first time I ever saw a 'folding wing' aircraft on an aircraft carrier. It was a long time ago and I was just a kid watching a Supermarine Swift, the sea-going version of the Spitfire, unfold its wings aboard a British carrier visiting the fair city of Halifax, Nova Scotia.

I couldn't believe what I was seeing! Why would anyone want to fly in an airplane that already had 'broken' wings? What was to stop those wings from folding up again when in flight?

It was a moment of epiphany that has haunted me all my life. Whenever I am about to lean on a railing or climb a stair or pass over (or under) a bridge I remember the very unconvincing 'snap' as those wings locked into their flying position, and it gives me pause. It just didn't seem that wings on hinges could be trusted not to collapse once they were holding the entire plane aloft.


~jwf~

I think personal physical risk and emotional risk involve quite different parts of the personality and brain... But an interesting take of the question.

I've always found it difficult to trust others due to having my trust betrayed from when I was young. It's resulted in me not having large groups of friends but to have longer friendships with people who I believed I could trust.

It always takes me a long period of time to strike up a good friendship with someone because I'm always thinking that they must have some ulterior motive. As for relationships, I haven't had any long term for the same reason. By the time I realise I can trust somebody, they've got sick of waiting for me.

I always thought that I could depend on my long term friendship with someone who I've grown up with, but recently have had that trust betrayed.

As for trusting family members, again, I always thought I would be able to depend on them but once more have had that trust betrayed.

Like GB said "I don't want to be lonely and/or bitter, but it'll be a huge step for me to trust someone implicitly again."

All of you make a great deal of sense. In response to the very first post on this thread I think of "earning trust" in a different sort of way.

I am a person who has been burned while trusting people, e.g. being cheated on by a girlfriend in a long distance relationship. Yet everytime I start a new relationship I trust again. As Maya Angelou said "Have the courage to trust love one more time, and always one more time".

Anyway what I was getting at is that in the beginning you can trust but only to a degree and then trust is "earned" or perhaps grows, as some have said, once a situation involing trust arises. On the other hand I do belive that you have to be a realist and prepare your self for the a bad outcome when trusting, you don't want to be played for a fool. A very tricky area indeed.

One thing I've learnt in life is that people let you down. They are only human and all of us are frail in terms of hurting and being hurt. If someone continually lets you down then you have to question whether you are right to trust them or have faith in them. Everyone is taken in by someone who lets them down, at sometime in their lives ,some like AGB, very badly. But none of us are prefect and I'm sure someone somewhere will say I let them down or hurt them, whether intentionally or not.I have been hurt very badly in return by some one I loved and trusted, but life goes on and I can't measure everyone else by that person. (That same person may be seen as an angel by someone else). It's all part of living I'm afraid. I feel very sad for those here who feel they can't trust anyone and I hope one day you will trust again But remember we are human beings and we do let each other down ,it's part of being human, no one is immune.

Yes, the complexities of human relationships make life difficult!

One can feel they were let down because one's expectations of the other person were unrealistic or unstated. If you ask someone to keep a secret/make a promise/behave in a certain way & they agree, then at least there is some sort of contract which could be deemed broken if the terms aren't met.
But sometimes people complain about behaviour when it doesn't meet their standards, which can be unreasonable.

With my learning about my Asperger's, I have had to re examine almost every life experience.
I have had a tendency to trust people until they prove untrustworthy, while they seem to expect that I will trust them with each new opportunity, forgetting and forgiving any previous event to the contrary.
I still haven't figured out if anyone trusts me.
I am remarkably consistent...
within my own little world.

I recently had another reason to explain to someone who was supposed to be close to me the difference between her version of trust and love and mine.
She seemed to think they could exist entirely separately, while I think you have to do one before the other.

A co-worker explained that to him he can love someone that he doesn't trust, as long as he remembers to be careful.

I don't know. I don't mind giving someone another opportunity to behave, but if they don't appreciate...
to hell with them.