A Conversation for Ask h2g2
born again Bush
azahar Started conversation Apr 24, 2004
Read this article this morning which clearly sums up my worst fears about George W. Bush. Any comments?
"The strong influence of the Christian right on US policy will only increase if George Bush wins a second term"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1201933,00.html
"He dispelled any doubts about the strength of his Christian faith during his last press conference on Iraq, when he made it clear that God was personally directing him to fundamentally reshape the Arab world.
As surely as fundamentalism has kept much of the Islamic world in a state of cultural regression, so the fundamentalists of the US threaten to do the same thing in the States."
azahar
born again Bush
Alec Trician. (is keeping perfectly still) Posted Apr 24, 2004
HiAzahar
reading that article from this side of the pond, it sounds more like the author is panicking rather than informing.
reading on to the end of the article...
"Phillip James (the author) is a former senior Democratic Party strategist"
in other words he's a loser who wasn't very good at his job.
"...the forces of fundamentalism arraigned against the forces of enlightenment."
Now i do not consider myself to be a fundamentalist, but Mr. James certainly doesn't appear to me to be particularly 'enlightened'.
Unless you consider conning the Grauniad out of some money for writing a vacuous article to be 'enlightened'.
alec.
born again Bush
azahar Posted Apr 24, 2004
"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."
http://bushwatch.org/evangelist.htm
"Bush vows no 'compromise' on gay 'marriage'"
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030730-115312-8047r.htm
"President Bush Signs Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003"
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/11/20031105-1.html
"Bush Signs Unborn Victims Act"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A43285-2004Apr1¬Found=true
It's not just in the Guardian.
az
born again Bush
Mother of God, Empress of the Universe Posted Apr 26, 2004
I had a big eye-opener recently in talking to one of those christian middle-Americans who happens to be a friend of mine. I realized just how *much* that so-called Christian stance matters to some people whom I'd consider otherwise reasonable.
Her basis for voting for that man again is that he's a "good Christian"... doesn't have extra-marital affairs and goes to church. She *believes* that WMD were found in Iraq! She *believes* that Bush has the best interests of 'all those people over there' foremost in his actions. And she's not deeply concerned about the lies and manipulations he's used to gain some popular support for his decisions, feeling that they're justified by his 'Christianity' and the supposed resulting security for The American Way.
More than anything else, that conversation scared me. And Bush scares me. A lot. My friend is far from fundamentalist, and not closed-minded in most ways. I hadn't realized how deeply the "Christian" tag ties people together, and blinds them to how fundamentally un-Christian, and worse, un-democratic, the behavior of our government, led by Bush, has been.
There are a LOT of people here who don't realize that the president's job is inherently *not* about promoting a religion-biased viewpoint.
born again Bush
azahar Posted Apr 26, 2004
hi MoG,
Long time no see!
I had an American woman staying with me last week and I read her part of the article I posted here and she found it very difficult to believe that such a large percentage of the American population (46% according to Gallup) would refer to themselves as 'born again', though she could believe that there are that many Christians.
<>
Yes, this woman - and I think many Americans - would probably be as surprised as you. Though she did say that her parents, who are Christian, would no doubt vote for Bush just because of him being a Christian republican. No thought put into it. As you say, it is very frightening when such a large number of the population will vote in this manner.
<>
az
born again Bush
creachy Posted Apr 26, 2004
I was completely unaware he had used the line, 'God told me to do it..'.
I should stop ignoring the Bush administration, it looks quite serious.
born again Bush
dasilva Posted Apr 26, 2004
Oh grreat. WWIII, the religious wars...
...that's it, I'm off to a cave!
born again Bush
GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 Posted Apr 26, 2004
As an atheist I would find it very scary if the leader of my country were to come out and say that he's doing things because he believes that god told him to do it. He seems to have forgotten that as the leader of a Democratic state his decisions should be based on what the people want and not on what his god wants.
born again Bush
Ged42 Posted Apr 26, 2004
Okay so Bush is saying that 'God told him to do it,' as in voices in his head telling him what to do! Isn't that usually the alibi that most serial killers give when called to answer for their actions.
And people what to re-elect this guy!
born again Bush
abbi normal "Putting on the Ritz" with Dr Frankenstein Posted Apr 27, 2004
People are quite good at ignoring things.
That is how we got here.
In the US people that do not believe the war is just,
who think the economy is tanking,
who hate his immigration changes,
who are worried about National Security for what ever reason
BUT believe abortion is wrong,
WILL vote for George again.
In fact he will get some new votes due to this stance
I would like to add there are many Christians that believe in choice.
born again Bush
GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 Posted Apr 27, 2004
I have no problems with Christians (unless they try to convert me or are extremely fanatical.).
born again Bush
azahar Posted Apr 27, 2004
hi GodBen,
Yes, or if they try to turn a mixed population of over 300 million into fundamentalists by changing laws to suit a right wing Christian viewpoint.
az
born again Bush
GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 Posted Apr 27, 2004
What ever happened to the separation of church and state?
born again Bush
azahar Posted Apr 27, 2004
More to the point, why aren't more Americans asking this question???
Why are they accepting the views of the Christian right without a fuss?
az
born again Bush
Mother of God, Empress of the Universe Posted Apr 27, 2004
In my opinion it's because there's very little emphasis on analytical thought these days, so people can easily accept that something which superficially sounds 'right', (which really means it fits in with what they're kinda accustomed to) must *be* right. So if you believe that Christianity is a love-based religion, it's easy to overlook the behaviors which stem from fear and the desire to control others. It seems there's a big disconnect in the minds of people who recognize that it's correct to seperate church and state-- they're adamantly against the idea that governments in other parts of the world would have a non-Christian base, but they don't extend that principle to the good ol' USA during this time when the right wing is pulling its weight to imbed Christian values into our legal system.
Our culture and our educational system gears toward a single, simple answer that fits and runs with the way things 'are' and 'always have been', rather than promoting looking towards the core of issues and attempting to come up with a new, creative, and comprehensive solution (which might well involve dramatic changes in the way we consider it 'normal' to live) to the problems which have arisen because we've always done things in a certain way. The Earth really *does* have limited resources, though in this country it's very easy to ignore that fact because we aren't presented with it in a glaring fashion. I guess, if people vote for the Christian tag, and they think about it at all, they're figuring that God will provide.
born again Bush
azahar Posted Apr 27, 2004
<>
And meanwhile disregarding that Bush has completely ignored the fact that global warming is a serious issue. The Pentagon recently released a report saying that within 15-20 years there will be such dramatic fresh water shortages (just one example from the report) that soon wars are going to be fought over water, not oil.
Why aren't people concerned about this???
az
Key: Complain about this post
born again Bush
- 1: azahar (Apr 24, 2004)
- 2: Alec Trician. (is keeping perfectly still) (Apr 24, 2004)
- 3: azahar (Apr 24, 2004)
- 4: Mother of God, Empress of the Universe (Apr 26, 2004)
- 5: azahar (Apr 26, 2004)
- 6: creachy (Apr 26, 2004)
- 7: dasilva (Apr 26, 2004)
- 8: azahar (Apr 26, 2004)
- 9: dasilva (Apr 26, 2004)
- 10: GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 (Apr 26, 2004)
- 11: Ged42 (Apr 26, 2004)
- 12: GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 (Apr 26, 2004)
- 13: Alec Trician. (is keeping perfectly still) (Apr 27, 2004)
- 14: abbi normal "Putting on the Ritz" with Dr Frankenstein (Apr 27, 2004)
- 15: GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 (Apr 27, 2004)
- 16: azahar (Apr 27, 2004)
- 17: GodBen (The Magical Astronomer) - 00000011 (Apr 27, 2004)
- 18: azahar (Apr 27, 2004)
- 19: Mother of God, Empress of the Universe (Apr 27, 2004)
- 20: azahar (Apr 27, 2004)
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