h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I'd just like to make it clear that I have no objection in principle or practice to anyone believing whatever ridiculous nonsense gets them through the day. If your leg is weak and you need a wooden crutch to get you walking, you use one. If your mind is weak and you need a psychological crutch to get you out of bed, you use one.

What I do object to is adults passing on this pernicious garbage to vulnerable children. It's bad enough that parents are permitted to do it to their children. The very idea that someone like nicky could be PAID to do so is abhorrent. That her salary may come out of the taxes *I* pay just makes me fizz even more.

I'm all for creationist education in the private sector, or in the USA - the world needs an educational underclass to flip burgers and sweep the streets. I just don't want to be paying for this child abuse out of my wages.

SoRB

"Seeing as how this is a generally theist-based thread, how do people feel about theists getting special treatment in NHS hospitals? A University Professor is arguing for patients to be asked their religion on admittance to ensure they receive the appropriate care."

Not seen the original news story, but this seems entirely sensible and reasonable to me. It's not special treatment in the sense that theists get their own rooms or better treatment, just more appropriate treatment (in the non-medical sense) for everyone. So if you're seriously ill and an atheist and have no desire whatever to see the Chaplain, you can make this clear. If you are religious and do, that can also be made clear. Knowing these things in advance can help seriously ill and dying people be given the surroundings appropriate to their needs and their families' needs.

Not sure what's wrong with this, but then I haven't read the article. Maybe there's an issue if the NHS funds Chaplains, but I'm not sure if that is the case or not.

Oh will you guys get something resembling a grip. I don't think anyone has suggested that Nicky is going to be sent into schools preaching the gospel to innocent young minds much of scarcely qualifies as 'pernicious garbage' anyway. Some of it is quite sensible, even if you only see Jesus as a bloke with a beard, he still had some reasonable things to say. Now to suggest that everyone who believes in God does so merely beacause their minds are weak is patronising and ignorant and, as I have already said, coming from people who whinge incessantly about the intolerance with which they are treated, somewhat hypocritical. If we are going to engage in a discussion about the rights and wrongs of christian teaching and it's place in the world of education, can we please make it a general discussion and merely allow Nicky to state her own views rather than referring to the poor girl as 'her' throughout as if she was some kind of lepper. There are people in this thread whose attitude thus far has been consistently agressive, intolerant rude and the funny thing is, Nicky is not one of those people.

"Seeing as how this is a generally theist-based thread, how do people feel about theists getting special treatment in NHS hospitals? A University Professor is arguing for patients to be asked their religion on admittance to ensure they receive the appropriate care."

Off hand I can think of three instances where "theists" receive preferential services in NHS hospitals, all of which must count as a cost to the NHS.

i) The services of a chaplain of the appropriate faith (who do agnostics and atheists get, to talk through the implications of illness and dying?)

ii) For Jews and Islamics: kosher/halal meals (which are said, by unlucky recipients, to be every bit as disgusting as the slop served up to Christians)Are Hindus offered alternatives to beef-based dishes, btw?

iii) Jehovah Witnesses are offered an expensive alternative to blood transfusions (despite their theological case against looking really flaky on examination)

I don't begrudge any of this, as meeting somebody's spiritual needs must contribute towards their overall health and happiness, (therefore making them morel ikely to survive operations and to be discharged without complications?) but I wonder how much it costs?

How much does it cost to treat people who have drunk their livers to extermination, or smoked themselves to lung cancer or a tumour or something? Same deal I guess, isn't it. Myabe a Jehova's witness who refuses blood transplants can expect a surgeon to refuse treatment in the same way as they might refuse someone who was still drinking or smoking?

Nah, there is an alternative for JWs - they can still be transfused, they just have to have a more expensive alternative. Which they get, as I understand it. I can't see a surgeon refusing to treat them on grounds of the cost of the blood substitute.

SoRB

"How much does it cost to treat people who have drunk their livers to extermination, or smoked themselves to lung cancer or a tumour or something? Same deal I guess, isn't it. Myabe a Jehova's witness who refuses blood transplants can expect a surgeon to refuse treatment in the same way as they might refuse someone who was still drinking or smoking?"

Well, seeing as heavy drinkers and smokers end up making much greater tax contributions than average, how about things were evened up by the suggestion that a theist may recieve any special treatment required above and beyond the basic services, so long as the treatment is subsidised by their parent church?

And while we're at it, I knew plenty of priests when I was a boy, and there were a fair amount of drinkers and smokers amongst them - it's just not that clear cut.

The link to the story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6253409.stm

I note that an NHS spokesman said that patients are already entitled to ask for male/female doctors anyway.

Where do Jews get their circumcisions done?

A religious figure does them, as far as I'm aware. They aren't done on the NHS. I don't think they should be either, except in certain medical circumstances, any more than certain types of cosmetic surgery.

As far as I know the only NHS approved reason for male circumcision is phimosis - where the foreskin becomes un-naturally tight and begins to strangle everything else, so the pressure has to be surgically relieved.

I intended to come back to this last night, but I kinda fell asleep instead.

I'd like to defend nicky, with regards to people attacking her desire to be a teacher, it's unfair and very possibly inaccurate.

When you do a PGCE one of the very first things you are taught is to be completely professional at all times, that it is more important in teaching than many other professions because of the impact one can have in kids lives. Dealing with your personal beliefs is a major part of this professionalism.

We don't know enough about nicky to say that she'd be unprofessional, and I see no reason to make such a claim. So what if she has atrong personal beliefs? I do too, and yet I'll be taking an RE class later today, and next week I'll be dealing with issues of crime on whcih I hold strong beliefs. However, the kids will never know it. It's a cheap, unjustified shot and its kinda offensive.

I intended to come back to this last night, but I kinda fell asleep instead.

I'd like to defend nicky, with regards to people attacking her desire to be a teacher, it's unfair and very possibly inaccurate.

When you do a PGCE one of the very first things you are taught is to be completely professional at all times, that it is more important in teaching than many other professions because of the impact one can have in kids lives. Dealing with your personal beliefs is a major part of this professionalism.

We don't know enough about nicky to say that she'd be unprofessional, and I see no reason to make such a claim. So what if she has atrong personal beliefs? I do too, and yet I'll be taking an RE class later today, and next week I'll be dealing with issues of crime on whcih I hold strong beliefs. However, the kids will never know it. It's a cheap, unjustified shot and its kinda offensive.

Athiest teacher here.I cover RS lessons and can teach them very well because I'm professional in my job..As an educator my job is to present the facts and all differing opinons and then leave the rest hopefully to the students.It is NOT my job to tell them what to think.I'm an educator not a propagandist and most of the time I am Devil's Advocate in trying to get students to THINK FOR THEMSELVES not accept the first thought or opinon that occurs without subjecting it to a rigerous examination first.

I agree I may have been a bit OTT in personalising things. But I do feel quite strongly about this issue and if the discussion is to continue in any kind of interesting way it's pretty obvious I shall have to generalise from now on.

I'm not familiar with the scientific research about homosexuality, but I seem to remember way back that SoRB mentioned that science is coming more around to the likelihood that it has a genetic basis. In terms of research of male homosexuality I found this link in a BBC article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3735668.stm

You see I'd hope a biology teacher with any kind of strong religious faith, which was essentially anti gay, would be able to teach this information in a rational, intelligent way. We have the example of what is happening in some parts of the States where the Christian lobby has become so powerful that 'Creationsim' is actually now part of the science curriculum.

Also how would such a person teach human biology and sexuality? How would they cope with dealing with adolescent concerns over sexuality?

I know nothing about the standard and rigorousness of the teaching qualification. I really hope they properly confront issues like this, when dealing with theists.

"Also how would such a person teach human biology and sexuality? How would they cope with dealing with adolescent concerns over sexuality?"

I don't see the problem...surely you say 'this is the current state of science, this is what the law says, and no matter how you're built or who you're attracted to, you're still a valid person' or something along those lines but phrased rather better.

I always wondered how precisely the 'gay gene' was passed on...

Osmosis?

"You see I'd hope a biology teacher with any kind of strong religious faith, which was essentially anti gay, would be able to teach this information in a rational, intelligent way. We have the example of what is happening in some parts of the States where the Christian lobby has become so powerful that 'Creationsim' is actually now part of the science curriculum."


Creationism is part of the curriculum here too,only it's part of the RS syllabus which in my opinion is the correst place for it.

"Also how would such a person teach human biology and sexuality? How would they cope with dealing with adolescent concerns over sexuality?

I know nothing about the standard and rigorousness of the teaching qualification. I really hope they properly confront issues like this, when dealing with theists."

By simply sidestepping and getting a senior or another member of staff to deal with any such issues.Otherwise sex education isn't just a part of the science syllabus here it's also taught as part of Personal,Health and Social Education and quite often outside speakers come in to educate about contraception.We try very hard to cut the numbers of teen pregnancies.

Incidentally here in the UK it has been illegal until recently to even discuss homosexuality in schools because of clause 28 which made it a no no subject in schools.

Anyone who is not professional enough to do this job with some detachment is soon spotted and helped where necessary.Most of the young people entering my profession these days are truly of an high calibre and the continuall assessment of staff is able to sort such issues out.In other words anyone who cannot be professional will be weeded out.

sexual education is seperate to science education as youve said. i have actually taught sex education already to 14 year olds

You are clearly either brave or foolish.

I understand there is a theory (or possibly it's been proven, I don't know) that homsexuals have an extra gender chromosome, so it's like XXY or something, rather than just XY or XX or whatever. Essentially you guys are just mutants, like most genetic variation within species. In which case- what would your mutant power be?