h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

A Granny knot is an overhand knot, basically half a reef knot.

Bowlines slip out of shape under sideways tension, yes, although I do know people that tie into harnesses with them.

All I can remember from my time abseiling when doing my Duke of Edinburgh award, is it had something to do with a rabbit and a hole!!??

No, that was Sex Education, wasn't it?

B

Naughty!!

Sorry but a granny knot is definitely an incorrectly tied reef knot. There is a companion knot called a thief knot which looks correct but will slip out under load.

A bowline will hold in nylon rope but so many common knots won't that most climbers are taught just to use the figure of eight in the interests of safety.

F

Devil and the Deep Blue Sea.

Surely the previous explanation, that of the devil being the crack above the waterline on a ship etc, is an over complication of the origins of this saying, or perhaps even a complete tangent.

After all, the saying is 'Caught between the devil and the deep blue sea' and indicates when one is in an impossible situation and hemmed in on all sides.
How does an awkward to caulk crack on a ship have anything to do with this? Surely the explanation of the saying is exactly what it says, a case of imagining two extremes that you wouldn;t want to be caught between and then using them to clarify your current situation?
Occam's razor an' all that?

"The rabbit comes out the hole, goes 'round the tree and back down the hole". Personally I just found it easier to learn how to tie the thing.

I knew someone would remember it.
wrt devil & deep blue sea, where does the expression between a rock and a hard place come from? Still thinking about Granny

Again, same as my thoughts on the D&DBS, this seems a case of simplifying to extremes to provide an illustration of a more complex situation. Somewhat less imaginatively in this case since a rock *is* a hard place.
A very brief google on it claims early 20th Century America, probably Arizona during what it calls the 'financial pannic early in this century'. Although presumably that means last century

Strange really, because it has the ring of being biblical to my ind. Ho hum.

I have a feeling 'devil and the deep blue see' is Biblical, or possibly mythical...

'see' hmm, that puts a whole new interprretation on it! Papal See I take it?

always preview when criticising others spelling

Devil & deep blue sea - my reference confirms the seam in the hull. This is of course is all that keeps you apart from the deep blue sea?

Rock & a hard place - sounds biblical but is modern American

Rabbit going round the tree & down the hole - that's how I learnt to tie a sheetbend as a girl guide!

Nothing to offer on the subject of Grannies..

On the subject of boats: twixt wind and water is a nautical term for f**ked. It means being holed on the waterline.

From google newsgroups search (try DATDBS and origin)

The devil seam was the curved seam in the deck planking closest to the side of the ship and next to the scupper gutters. If a sailor slipped on the deck, he could find himself between the devil and the deep blue sea

Re:- Grannies:
http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/reefknot.html

A term of contempt for a crap knot.

Liam.

Re "Rock & a hard place" - does this have any origins with Scylla (who lived on a rock) and Charybdis (who lived in a whirlpool)? Oddyseus had to navigate between the rock and the whirlpool (which is quite hard!).

Or is this just wishful thinking?

That's the story I was thinking of! Whether it's true or not I don't know, but that's the myth I was trying to remember.

McCoy of the real Mccoy was a black american inventor who overcame the odds to set up his own business making high quality machines and gadgets. They were so good that his products were often copied and so people would ask salesmen if his wares were "the real McCoy".

Devil & Deep Blue Sea

I thought the first explanations were correct - i.e. the 'devil' being the seam further down the side of the ship.

If sailors were extremely naughty, they'd get turfed over the side on a bit of rope, and dragged through the waves for a while. Stuck under the devil but tied up so you won't sink into the sea - that's what I thought of when I saw 'caught between devil and deep blue sea'


I knew something

I don't like Occam's razor

Well, I'll be sure to tell him next time I pass that way. No doubt he'll get a new one just for you