h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

OK - I'm with Pencil Queen and other yea-sayers. I'm NOT on the Atkins Diet, though - I'm on my own variation. I didn't have an induction period, I don't even have the book.

I reduced the amount of carbohydrate I had per day. That was all I did. In January 2002, I weighed 15 stone, and knew I had to do something. I didn't eat junkfood, missed my chocolate fix as I'd already stopped that, and I snacked on salad-stuff, and my weight was still going up. I changed my diet, on the recommendation of my mum. Reduced the number of carbohydrates I had, and ate an almost identical diet, but with less carbohydrate stuffs. This is a typical menu from my day (for my interest, so skip it if you're not interested).

Instead of cereal at breakfast, I had one or two slices of bacon, grilled, and a fried egg. If I were hungry before lunch, I'd have one of the pieces of fruit/vegetable I'd brought in. Lunch was mainly cold meat, but by saving on not having bread, I had some carbohydrates to play with - enough for my chocolate fix. Rather than having a modern chocolate bar like Twix or Snickers (very high in carbs, read the nutrition information) I had a row of Dairy Milk or similar, which worked out at about 10grams, nearly half of the carbohydrates contained in a slice of bread. I managed to down 5 pieces of fruit easily, which was the Government's guideline, but I like fruit so that wasn't a hardship for me. By the evening, I might have been hungry (I don't remember) but I was able to have a full meal with plenty of meat and vegetables, and a half-portion of rice or potatoes.

For those who note that I have fruit, I can answer that it might be carbohydrate, but it's not starch, and sugar-carbohydrate never added to my weight. The same, it seems, with sweetcorn and similar - I know they're high in carbohydrates, but I enjoyed them without ill-effect.

Also, I wrote in the past-tense (bit of a boast coming up). In November 2002, I was nearly 13 stone, so I'd lost a good bit, but I got pregnant. Over the pregnancy I discovered I could metabolise starch in a wonderful way - so I spent most of my pregnancy eating potatoes with no weightgain at all! Now I've had my precious bundle, I'm back to the diet, and am aiming to lose the last bit of weight and keep my non-regimed diet within my life-style. Yes, it's a lifestyle change, but as long as it doesn't feel like a diet, who would be worried about it?

x x Dorothy

Oh, and I also had a small chocolate present (another 10grams or so) for dessert - there have to be rewards!)

x x Dorothy

I believe that your digestive system finds complex substances like protein difficult to break down. By packing your body with the likes of protein and fat isn't there the risk that you will get 'bunged up' so to speak, or that your body will get tired of it being in your system and eject it without taking out the nutrients?

Hi Lost,

I am leary of trying the Atkins diet, because it has NO limits on fatty meat or cheese, except "don't gorge".

I have been doing something called the South Beach Diet, which is also by an MD, Arthur Agatston, whose specialty is heart disease. It's very similar to Atkins, since it is also rooted in the same diet which used to be given to newly diagnosed diabetics (to get their blood sugars normalized): You would cut meals down to a little lean meat and some almost no-calorie vegetables, and over a period of time (usually 4-5 days), add foods back in and by checking blood sugars, determine which foods would be off limits and which were okay.

South Beach is similar to Atkins, except that it restricts protein choices to the leaner varieties, and no full-fat cheeses for the first couple of weeks, but does allow high fiber-lower carb legumes and a lot of vegetable choices (like mushrooms!). I don't get really hungry on this diet; I even had the problem of making myself eat, because I just wasn't interested in food, but insulin rules -- you gotta eat.

A meal idea for you: Instead of bread, lay a few slices of turkey or ham on a butter lettuce leaf, top with a slice of skim mozzarella, and roll the lettuce up, for a wrap sandwich. You can make them at home and they're filling. Usually what I've been having for breakfast.

Sorry for the long post, just getting my in, since I joined the thread so late!

SC

Third Man, you're right. Your digestive system usually needs fiber (which comes from -- you guessed it! -- starches and vegetables) and lots of water to work efficiently. But high protein diets can affect other things as well.

This is why, as a diabetic, I am approaching the low carb thing so cautiously. With diabetes, you run the risk of kidney damage anyway, and eating lots of protein puts stress on ANYONE'S kidneys because proteins are harder to process than fats or carbs. My kidneys work perfectly (after 25 years!) but why go overboard?

Also, by severely cutting carbs, you induce something called ketoacidosis. This is also what happens when you have OUT OF CONTROL diabetes: you take in food, but since your body can't use the glucose, it consumes muscle tissue for fuel.

In someone who has normal pancreas function, this isn't a problem. Nor is it for a diabetic who is taking insulin or oral hypoglycemic drugs, and is in reasonably good control. But I'm just taking things very slowly, anyway. OHMIGOD! Does this mean I've turned conservative!?!

SC

Ketoacidosis? Isn't that the thing that sonmetimes gives diabetics bad-breath?

Yes, but only if they're in poor control, with high blood sugars (over a period of a week or longer), and heading for coma. As for bad breath, read "fruity odor" caused by acetone (acid) in the system.

Diabetics can do a low carb diet if in control of their blood sugar, but if I didn't have a blood glucose monitor, I wouldn't even consider it.

SC

If in fifteen years or so time the rhenal units of the West are swamped with people with problems having been caused by the prolonged use of the Atkins diet, would people be able to sue the promoters in the same way smokers have sued ciggy suppliers?

Rhenal *and* cardio units will be full I should imagine. Any heart disease specialist will tell you to steer clear of fried food and to limit red meat. From what I've heard alot of Atkins dieters seem to have eggs and bacon every day as just a starter and they're not really ignoring Atkins guidelines which just say not to 'over eat'. This suggests not to have 10 slices of bacon and 6 eggs in one sitting and would allow 2 or 3 slices of bacon and one or two eggs. So 7 or 14 eggs and 20 odd rashers of bacon a week is what I would call too much cholestrol and frying - even if the bacon is grilled whihc not many people would do when they are told fat is not a steer clear.

The scathing comments of the ill-informed rise again.

a) don't knock it till you've tried it

b) don't state things as fact if you couldn't be bothered to research it _properly_ (that means listening and taking in the good points too)

Logic:
The amount of carbohydrates that the average person consumes far outweighs the amount of energy we expend.

To cut down a bit just makes common sense.

'don't state things as fact if you couldn't be bothered to research it _properly_ (that means listening and taking in the good points too'

what has been said that should be researched properly ?

'Logic:
The amount of carbohydrates that the average person consumes far outweighs the amount of energy we expend.

To cut down a bit just makes common sense.'

Agreed. 'Cutting down a bit' does. But does the Atkins not really restrict it down, cutting this major food group out almost completely.
Logic : Cutting down on fat rather than merrily adding to it when it is so damaging to the heart also makes common sense.

any that has been said 'from what I've heard', mind you, even some scientific journals have printed frankly laughable detriments about Atkins.

As has been said, it's only very restrictive for the first couple of weeks. Then you build up your carb intake. But never to the extent that you were eating them before - because then you'd be consuming more than you were expending.

As has been said - you are told about different kinds of fat. Some are more detrimental than others.

If you cut out all fat from your diet, you'd go mad . Seriously, your brain needs fat.


I'll continue with what I've said before - try it, if you feel at all ill, it's not for you. This doesn't mean it's a bad way of life. Everybody is different. People have different tolerances to different diets.

You shouldn't say it's evil just from hearsay. There are some that didn't like it. There are others where it has dramatically changed their lives for the better.

Have you tried eating moderately from all the major food groups, lowering your calorie intake and exercising regularly, thus strenghthening your heart and arteries rather than clogging them ? Don't knock it till you've tried it.

Yes so there.

I was on Slimming World for quite a while - which is good in that it encourages me to have a more 'normal' balanced diet.

While doing both regimes I've exercised about the same amount (walking 5k to work every other morning).

With Atkins there's less risk of slipping - because you're cutting out certain things - rather than just having a 'treat' or 'sin' which is never enough.

I get lots of big spots with a 'normal' diet. Some 'normal' diet foods bloat me out, I haven't figured them all out yet. Neither of these things happen with Atkins, plus I'm pretty much guaranteed weight loss, and my brain is more sparky (probably all the protein!). A 'normal' diet doesn't work as well. Don't know why, but there you are. And I'm pretty normal - no diabetes/IBS/etc. where I need a special diet.


Like I said, everybody's different, and you shouldn't knock Atkins and put people off, just because it doesn't do it for you.

OK I've not tried it and don't have a weight problem so maybe shouldn't comment anyway. Like someone before, I just imagine hosts of people in years to come with kidney and heart problems because they followed a diet that sounds so attractive - being able to eat a fry for breakfast lots of cheese and lovely red meat for example. I can see it appears to immediately 'work for people' in so much as you lose weight, but at what cost. I just can't see round the heart thing at all. I'd put people off anything with strange logic (ie you can lose weight but don't you worry about cholesterol or your heart)
Do people on the diet have their cholesterol monitored as often as their weight checked ? Blood tests for kidney function before and during starting the diet ?
My guess is that people on it are so relieved by the apparent effortless weight loss that they would like everyone who is thinking logically about it's impact to just disappear. Butchers are thinking likewise.

I've had a complete blood work-up done before and after starting Atkins. My cholestorol has come down, my LDL/HDL ratio is better, my weight is down over 40 pounds, and I my blood pressure, which was always quite good, is even better. Also, my kidneys are doing just fine. My doctor knows I am on Atkins, and every 3 months, I get a complete blood work-up. In the first three month period, all of the above occured, and my doctor is encouraged by my results, as she watched me struggle with my weight. I am healthier now than I was when I spent a year on Weight Watchers. I am also no long obsessed with food -- if I get hungry, I grab a piece of jerky, or my favorite, celery sticks with cream cheese or peanut butter (the all-natural kind!)

What I do take issue with is someone's (can't remember who) assertion that Atkins puts you into ketoacidosis. It doesn't...it puts you into ketosis, which is a similar kidney filtering process, but is NOT the same thing. Also, he states in bold letters in his book that anyone with any sort of kidney problem EVER to be throughly vetted by a doctor before starting.

Yes, I do eat a lot of eggs. Yes, I do eat more red meat than I used to. But I also eat more veggies than I ever did before, and I am not as obsessed with food. Would I like to eat a banana every now and again? Yes, and I do. I sometimes even have a little chocolate. What Atkins has done for me is freed me from my obsession with refined carbohydrates. Eventually, I'll start eating potatoes and bread again, or not. Who knows? What I do know is that I was extremely skeptical to begin with, and have now become a wholehearted convert. My body, both inside and out, are proof that for some people, it works.

I've recently been attending a series of lectures held by a nutrionist (?) and one thing she stated was that cholesterol in food is not vital to your health unless your levels are already too high - they won't get high from eating food rich in cholesterol but from other factors - among other things. It seems that in certain situations the human body produces cholesterol itself, and that's when it starts getting serious.

Let me see if I can remember what she said... *consults her notes* ...the human body makes cholesterol from... from... *throws dictionary into wall* eh - saturated fatty acids??? which is why you should go for the other sorts of fatty acids.

One of the factors that makes the enzyme(?) that turns fat into cholesterol work faster is high doses of insuline - which is why you'll often find that people with type 2 diabetes also have high cholesterol.

High doses of insuline are triggered by food with lots of sugar or a high glychemical index - if you eat a lot of those every day for several years you are most likely going to end up with diabetes type 2.

Apologies for any odd words - I've been guessing wildly, since my dictionary is sadly inadequate, and English is a foreign language to me (and it's almost midnight here, so I might not even make much sense anyway typing half asleep).

T, you actually make a lot of sense.


But let me clarify one point. Refined carbohydrates, which are high on the glycemic index, speed up the creation of cholesterol in the body, correct? So eating lower on the glycemic index helps slow down the process, all other factors being equal?

wish i had seen this thread earlier...

it is all about balance.

Use the diet in the short term for weight loss if you must - but basic dietary management cannot be fulfilled by the Atkins diet.

You lose weight - yes
You get bad breath - yes
You are storing up problems for later in life - very probably but aren't we all?

Can you spend your life on it? - nope.

We should all forget the term 'diet' and replace it with dietary management.

Quick fix won't help in the long term. And as it is medically unsound to spend life on the diet then at some point people need to re-evaluate their eating patterns and habbits to maintain any weight loss gained.

However it is easier mentally to try to keep it off than to lose it in the first place. so if a quick fix does that then i can see why people do it. trouble is unless a decent healthy eating pattern is maintained afterwards then the weight just pilres on again and by then, no doubt, then the cabbage soup diet will be back in fashion.

I know it is all very boring (hell i can talk - i eat 1 piece of fruit a month if i am lucky) but it all adds to the increase in cancers which won't become evident for many years.