h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"Not exactly. I don't believe in *picking on* the weak...just simply not letting the weak get away with mistakes just because they are weak. It's the same with the little c**ts that get away with murder in the criminal system. Just because they have *bad backgrounds* it doesn't mean to say they have a right to go out and ruin everyone else's lives."

Well, for starters the "weak" are not morally in the same book as the belligerant and violent. The latter are a danger to society, the weak are just a "danger" to themselves. I think the point you made was a bit morally convoluted.

More to the point, Nestle are not picking on the Ethiopian Government (who are not even responsible for the mess - that was a military junta who decided to side with the USSR) but the Ethiopians themselves who have nothing to do with a pound of flesh owed to Nestle by a former Regime they had little control over.

If Nestle were honest they would say "This is about business. We don't enjoy taking money from starving people but that money is owed to us and we have a legal right to it. If people starve then that's just too bad, we have an obligation to our shareholders not a bunch of Africans". Unfortunately, this is a truism that even most of the Free-Market Right are uncomfortable to admitting to or facing, so we get the ideological but deliberately vague w**k we see in Nestle's official statement.

I said >non essential FOODS<

Unless everyone has started eating oil now...

Unless you meant cooking oil?

RE : business. I don't understand other people's views sometimes. What happened to personal responsibility? It was Ethiopia that got themselves into the debt. Not Nestle...and it is certainly not Nestle's fault that the market for coffee dropped. No one can go around giving up all their money just because a charity case walks along and f**ks up...I have made a point of saying that it's not right that people are dying and Nestle should ease off. But the whole *people dying* thing is the responsibility of the Ethiopain government. It is not Nestle's responsibility to babysit the people that owe them money...

I *really* feel out of my depth here. Just to warn people. I don't have the statistics that everyone else seems to have. I'm just going on the basics. And I am not claiming to be right, ethical, or anything like that either. Just going with my gut.

But that is spin. You do it, I do it, it's just a method of trying to ease themselves out of a difficult situation. I'm suprised you get so morally outraged by it!!

I wasn't comparing the two groups morally by the way; just socially. Both are treated the same : everyone loves a victim. Neither seem to have responsibility thrown on them. I don't want people to die though!!! Like I don't want war!! I'm no monster. I just don't like seeing blame put where I feel it shouldn't go.

Life would be so much easier if I ruled the world. I would have all this crap sorted out in a second.

*brain feels overloaded*

I suggest that over the next few weeks we seperate the Nestle good from our shopping at the supermarket and the filling station, and while we pay for the rest of the goods we explain to the staff that they should bill Nestle for their goods which we are taking without paying for leaving your name and number so they can contact you.

You are merely taking goods in lieu of money which you have lost in the past in transactions with businesses which Nestle may one day own.

I've got away with three free kitkats in the last couple of days - managers are very receptive to the protest. The first Kitkats i've had in fifteen years.

They are the king of chocolate bars aren't they. The perfect blend of chocolate and buscuit. And black children.

Quick confirmation of Nestle's guarantee to plough money back into Ethiopia;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,864621,00.html

And just in case that anybody thinks that 'one of Nestle's leading competitors' are made of of saints and angels;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,864750,00.html

"...desperate to avoid a repeat of the consumer boycott that has dogged it for years..."

Who says consumer pressure doesn't have an effect?

finally caught up

Nestle makes jelly tots bugger. Nestle chocolate tastes cheap.

I don't like Mars chocolate either (too sugary) (cadbury's chomp bar for me)

I don't drink coffee, or tea, but I do buy fair trade coffee & tea...I also use ecover washing up liquid to clean everything in the house and ecover washing tablets for the clothes . Ideally I would like to buy entirely organic, freerange, fair trade everything but so far I've only convinced hubby that the organic is worth the extra cash.

I don't like nestle, and I don't buy esso petrol (I would post a link but it would be modded), I do buy McDonalds...but only at motorway service stations on long trips (£5 for a burger BK must be losing it!).

I recycle everything, and having spent the last few days staying with family I realise how much that actually is (started digging bottles out of the bin at my sisters and shouted at my mum for throwing away xmas card envelopes instead of putting them in with the newspapers).


I feel like it is my duty to thikn about what the consequences of my actions are, whether that is taking time to recycle or spending a few extra pennies on fair trade products...it is *my* responsibilty to do the best I can for myself and for society and for the planet, I couldn't live my life without doing my bit...whats the point of living if all you leave behind is waste, destruction and pain.

Hi PQ

Do you know of this U191190 ?

or this http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/360/ ?

If you did... If not...the more the merrier!

Happy Christmas and don't all overdo the Nestle or anyone else's for that matter!

turvy

I had come across it but the 360 skin worries me (easily confised)...signed up now

Nice to see Nestle are paying attention to consumer protest. I'm going to see if they actually honour what they say they will before considering buying more of their stuff though.

The Mars bar thing is not remotely on the same level as the Nestle thing. Like the tobacco companies "tobacco is not addictive" anyone who believes that chocolate bars are anything other than bad for them (and tasty) really isn't going to get my sympathy when they end up fat and unhealthy from eating so many.

Like anything; it is all bad in excess but fine in moderation..!

So why are we all so worried about Ethiopia eh ? Bob Geldorf bailed them out a few years ago.

Actually why don't we close the old peoples homes as well - what do they contribute - and all this money spent on drug addicts - total waste - and the homeless ? don't make me laugh.

Where do you want to draw the line ? Its one thing to say that legally Nestle are entitled to the money - and a dubious point at that, its quite another to say that makes it right to insist on having your money back. Or maybe it isn't - if you want to live in a world without compassion ruled by lawyers.

Anyway its about time we had a word with the yanks about all that valuable tea of ours they chucked in Boston harbour - how much is that worth - not at todays prices of course - but by multiplying up the cost of 400 years ago.

Nestle aren't entitled to the money. It's just extortion. Ethipia can't afford for them to pull out so they can demand what they like.

I weasn#'t saying that Mars lying about the benefits of chocolate was remotely similar, merely making a point that no one is innocent, as somebody once said...

On the matter of Ethiopia, here's some truly cheering news, NOT;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/famine/story/0,12128,865089,00.html

Makes me proud to be British. I really don't know whether to or

George Monbiot has a rather radical, but workable solution to the long term problem;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,864995,00.html

good one BS. Just passed that link on to those on the vegetarianism thread

TSF

I agree with Pencil Queen. It's important to understand that our actions do have consequences, even if we don't know what those consequences are. It's also important to believe that our actions can have influence. If we think that we can't change anything, then obviously we won't change anything.

I also think it's dangerous to blame people outright for the unfortunate sitations they find themselves in. Undoubtedly there is corruption, undoubtedly there is a need for sustainable economic development in the country. But the drought and famine problems are not confined to Ethiopia - they are affecting countries all over Eastern and Southern Africa.

Anyway, where does blame get us? I'm sorry Ethiopia, you screwed up so you have to die? I believe we are all involved in the attempt to tackle poverty one way or another. Your tax goes towards this as well; the UK government intends to invest £30 million in Ethiopia over the next three years.

I don't understand the comment about emotional blackmail either. Just because some people feel certain emotions about these situations doesn't mean that they are not also based in logic and fact. Human beings aren't designed to separate these things. If you don't want to do anything personally, you shouldn't denigrate those who do.

I mis-read it Dagnabbit!

Firstly, Until under a year ago [methinks] Ethiopia was in one of the longest running wars still going on in the world at the moment with Eritrea. It was also under a civil war between various factions.

However, the people involved in orchestrating the war are not those who are currently starving: it is those who are fighting and dying in the war, the main body of the population who are starving, and will be most affected if Nestle insists on the money.

Many people refer to this lofty term 'business', and think that business has to work in one particular way: it doesn't. Business can be a force for common good rather than rampant greed, as I read somewhere 'Unrestrained growth is the ideology of the cancer cell'.

I'm just going with my gut as well

Just to keep everyone up to speed on developments.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2692101.stm

Thanks for the link GD. I bet there are a few people in the PR department (the ones that weren't sacked after the debacle blew up) wishing they had just gone ahead and done this in the first place...