A Conversation for Ask h2g2

Hircocervi?

Post 1

Afgncaap5

Just what are Hircocervi, and where does the name come from?

I first noticed it while reading a book called "Invisible Cities" by Italo Calvino. Near the end, there's a sentence listing a bunch of classical monsters, and I neatly noticed one such creature as being unfamiliar to me: "Sphinxes, griffons, chimeras, dragons, *hircocervi*, harpies, hydras, unicorns, basilisks"

Well, the first thing I did was search pantheon.org. Nothing.

Then h2g2.com. Nothing.

Then wikipedia.org. Nothing!

Then Google only had two "O"s at the bottom of the page. Most of those links were to textual reproductions of the book that I was reading (obviously no help). One of them, though, was a link to an AD&D manual entry that listed Hircocervi as a race of beings who searched for music and could teleport itself to other dimensions (had a picture of a big round thing on legs).

But here's the dilemma. This book predates AD&D, so the book clearly couldn't have gotten the name from the game. (Even if this were not true, I doubt a monster that only existed in AD&D would be listed with classical creatures like that.) Therefore, this creature must have *come* from somewhere!

But where?! I can't find mention of it anywhere! You'd think that between h2g2, wikipedia, and pantheon.org I could find *SOMETHING*! Not even dictionaries, encyclopedias, or my University's research library are very helpful.

So please, someone out there, help me out. This is probably the first time I've ever come across such an obscure term, and I just know I won't be happy until I can find a reference to it in a legend or piece of folklore.

So if any of you folklore enthusiasts or mythology majors or fairy tale fanatics have the slightest inkling, let me know. Even if it's just as simple as "Um,...it might be from Scandinavia. Yeah, read up on Scandinavian mythology," then I'd really appreciate the help narrowing it down.

Thanks in advance!


Hircocervi?

Post 2

Trin Tragula

Try googling the singular, 'hircocervus' - I just did and was amazed at some of the citations (Aquinas, Alcuin, all sorts of medieval references, suggesting it's certainly not modern ... well, it is Calvino, right? smiley - winkeye).

That said, apart from 'antlered deity' of some sort - half-goat, half-stag - I couldn't see it attached to a particular tradition.


Hircocervi?

Post 3

U168592

I think it might come from the Hircocervus or the Sacred
Goat-Stag. I think this is a mix of the pagan gods like Cerrunnos and perhaps Pan. Thus the depiction of the Devil as a Goat-headed demon...


Hircocervi?

Post 4

U168592

Try looking up Herne the Hunter too, that might help demystify it a bit more smiley - smiley

Maybe smiley - erm


Hircocervi?

Post 5

Trin Tragula

>>I think this is a mix of the pagan gods <<

That seemed to be the upshot of some of the Aquinas sites I was looking at: a general-purpose conglomerate for medieval Scholastics to instance as a bad thing.


Hircocervi?

Post 6

airscotia-back by popular demand

Related to Osiris and Shiva too apparently.

Funny how different cultures used the 'horned one' as a representation of evil/danger/liminal creatures.


Hircocervi?

Post 7

U168592

bad pagans, naughty pagans. stop worshipping horny things. it makes us randy. Oh! smiley - tongueout

smiley - reindeer


Hircocervi?

Post 8

Trin Tragula

smiley - laugh


Hircocervi?

Post 9

airscotia-back by popular demand

I'm no linguist, but the spelling doesn't look celtic to me. Latin or Greek do you think?


Hircocervi?

Post 10

U168592

I'd say Latin. Those bleedin' Romans nicked all the good gods for 'emselves. pilferers.


Hircocervi?

Post 11

airscotia-back by popular demand

Yes, including all the really useful Greek ones.

I want Christian gods of Wine and dancing......let's make church fun again.smiley - biggrin


Hircocervi?

Post 12

U168592

Come on now, turning water to wine, what more do you want? smiley - winkeye


Hircocervi?

Post 13

Afgncaap5

"I think this is a mix of the pagan gods like Cerrunnos and perhaps Pan."

Hmm. Maybe. I hadn't considered that because it was listed in conjunction primarily with monstrous creatures, and there's normally a clear difference between monsters and deities in most myths.

That being the case, I really should've thought to research the singular, not the plural. Thanks, this'll probably clear some things up.


Hircocervi?

Post 14

Gnomon - time to move on

If you're googling, it is Cernunnos, not Cerunnos.


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