A Conversation for Ask h2g2
Hircocervi?
Afgncaap5 Started conversation Feb 13, 2006
Just what are Hircocervi, and where does the name come from?
I first noticed it while reading a book called "Invisible Cities" by Italo Calvino. Near the end, there's a sentence listing a bunch of classical monsters, and I neatly noticed one such creature as being unfamiliar to me: "Sphinxes, griffons, chimeras, dragons, *hircocervi*, harpies, hydras, unicorns, basilisks"
Well, the first thing I did was search pantheon.org. Nothing.
Then h2g2.com. Nothing.
Then wikipedia.org. Nothing!
Then Google only had two "O"s at the bottom of the page. Most of those links were to textual reproductions of the book that I was reading (obviously no help). One of them, though, was a link to an AD&D manual entry that listed Hircocervi as a race of beings who searched for music and could teleport itself to other dimensions (had a picture of a big round thing on legs).
But here's the dilemma. This book predates AD&D, so the book clearly couldn't have gotten the name from the game. (Even if this were not true, I doubt a monster that only existed in AD&D would be listed with classical creatures like that.) Therefore, this creature must have *come* from somewhere!
But where?! I can't find mention of it anywhere! You'd think that between h2g2, wikipedia, and pantheon.org I could find *SOMETHING*! Not even dictionaries, encyclopedias, or my University's research library are very helpful.
So please, someone out there, help me out. This is probably the first time I've ever come across such an obscure term, and I just know I won't be happy until I can find a reference to it in a legend or piece of folklore.
So if any of you folklore enthusiasts or mythology majors or fairy tale fanatics have the slightest inkling, let me know. Even if it's just as simple as "Um,...it might be from Scandinavia. Yeah, read up on Scandinavian mythology," then I'd really appreciate the help narrowing it down.
Thanks in advance!
Hircocervi?
Trin Tragula Posted Feb 13, 2006
Try googling the singular, 'hircocervus' - I just did and was amazed at some of the citations (Aquinas, Alcuin, all sorts of medieval references, suggesting it's certainly not modern ... well, it is Calvino, right? ).
That said, apart from 'antlered deity' of some sort - half-goat, half-stag - I couldn't see it attached to a particular tradition.
Hircocervi?
U168592 Posted Feb 13, 2006
I think it might come from the Hircocervus or the Sacred
Goat-Stag. I think this is a mix of the pagan gods like Cerrunnos and perhaps Pan. Thus the depiction of the Devil as a Goat-headed demon...
Hircocervi?
Trin Tragula Posted Feb 13, 2006
>>I think this is a mix of the pagan gods <<
That seemed to be the upshot of some of the Aquinas sites I was looking at: a general-purpose conglomerate for medieval Scholastics to instance as a bad thing.
Hircocervi?
airscotia-back by popular demand Posted Feb 13, 2006
Related to Osiris and Shiva too apparently.
Funny how different cultures used the 'horned one' as a representation of evil/danger/liminal creatures.
Hircocervi?
airscotia-back by popular demand Posted Feb 13, 2006
I'm no linguist, but the spelling doesn't look celtic to me. Latin or Greek do you think?
Hircocervi?
U168592 Posted Feb 13, 2006
I'd say Latin. Those bleedin' Romans nicked all the good gods for 'emselves. pilferers.
Hircocervi?
airscotia-back by popular demand Posted Feb 13, 2006
Yes, including all the really useful Greek ones.
I want Christian gods of Wine and dancing......let's make church fun again.
Hircocervi?
Afgncaap5 Posted Feb 13, 2006
"I think this is a mix of the pagan gods like Cerrunnos and perhaps Pan."
Hmm. Maybe. I hadn't considered that because it was listed in conjunction primarily with monstrous creatures, and there's normally a clear difference between monsters and deities in most myths.
That being the case, I really should've thought to research the singular, not the plural. Thanks, this'll probably clear some things up.
Hircocervi?
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Feb 13, 2006
If you're googling, it is Cernunnos, not Cerunnos.
Key: Complain about this post
Hircocervi?
- 1: Afgncaap5 (Feb 13, 2006)
- 2: Trin Tragula (Feb 13, 2006)
- 3: U168592 (Feb 13, 2006)
- 4: U168592 (Feb 13, 2006)
- 5: Trin Tragula (Feb 13, 2006)
- 6: airscotia-back by popular demand (Feb 13, 2006)
- 7: U168592 (Feb 13, 2006)
- 8: Trin Tragula (Feb 13, 2006)
- 9: airscotia-back by popular demand (Feb 13, 2006)
- 10: U168592 (Feb 13, 2006)
- 11: airscotia-back by popular demand (Feb 13, 2006)
- 12: U168592 (Feb 13, 2006)
- 13: Afgncaap5 (Feb 13, 2006)
- 14: Gnomon - time to move on (Feb 13, 2006)
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