h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"Getting back to should we join the euro or not, an interesting historical note was that shortly after WW2, Winston Churchill proposed a pan european currency as one of the steps to bringing western europe closer together; he rather unimaginatively suggested it should be called the "euro pound"."

I know Churchill thought Western Europe needed to be "closer together" but Churchill was not automatically right about everything.

The Euro may be a good idea one day, but right now it's too early to jump straight into the water without looking to see exactly what's in there. We don't know the effect it'll have on our economy or what losing control over our currency (something we've never experienced before) will do. Speculation is not necessarily what will happen.

>>Euronotes are hideous, they're covered in pictures that belong on the wall of the unimaginative MD of some bland corporation. They are dull. And far too small.

Er... and British notes are beautiful works of art? I think the only nation who could safely mourn the loss of beautiful banknotes are the Dutch - but it's all a matter of taste.

But where is all this "euronotes are too small" that keeps cropping up here? A couple of people I know, and at least one on h2g2 (TC mentioned it in the "handbag" thread I think) that their old purse is too small because the Euros are bigger than the old DMs. The €5 is small, but the €200 is big. Much bigger than the €5. And even if the pictures are tacky or boring or whatever, the sentiment behind them is good.

btw, the off-topic Third World Debt discussion has moved to my Personal Space if anyone cares to join in (on either side).

Gif

A spokesman for Honda Europe today said that 'it's European Operational plans do not rely on UK joining the EURO.'

To bring this up again, has anyone in Britain changed their mind or strengthened their stance now that the Euro is 1:1 with the U.S. dollar?

Nope.

No other than at the same time as the dollar has weakend/euro strengthened the pound has also drifted down against the euro bringing it closer to the sort of level that would be right for entry to the eurozone.

"To bring this up again, has anyone in Britain changed their mind or strengthened their stance now that the Euro is 1:1 with the U.S. dollar?"

That's all very well, but I haven't changed my stance. I will concede that Euro entry may *one day* be a good idea, but I don't see the sense in diving into a project when we don't really know what the consequences will be.

The difficulty is if we don't join we never will know, will we?

I'll never know what it's like to be blind (least I hope I wont)
That doesn't mean I want to poke out my eyes just to find out.

And just like joining the Euro, it's pretty irreversible if I do try it.

Just an interesting note, I never realised, but Britain and Europe have had a single currency before now.
The Romans introduced one 1500 years or so ago.
And look how that worked out for them

I'm not anti-Euro. I just think we have more to gain by maintaining our active part in Europe but keeping our own currency and central bank.

>And look how that worked out for them

Pretty well - 1000 years of internal peace as a constitutional monarchy, arguably the best that Europe has ever been governed.

A single currency is not irreversible (as your Roman example shows), but entering and then leaving would be an expensive and damaging procedure.

Gif (still not heard a totally convincing argument from either side)

I don't think the single currency brought about the demise of one of the greatest empires the world has ever seen, which if one counts the eastern Empire, (the bit controlled from Byzantium) lasted pretty well over 1200 years.

The firm I work for has to opperate in euros and dollars, either way we lose out.

Alji, of the Red Dragon (Swynwr y Ddraig Goch) (conducting a sun sign poll at A712595)(Member of The Guild of Wizards U197895 looking for wiz kids to join, though you don't have to be a wiz kid just know a bit about some subject that you think will be of interest to others or just bore the pants off them. This is an equall opportunities space open to all sexes, ages and abilities)

>To bring this up again, has anyone in Britain changed their mind or strengthened their stance now that the Euro is 1:1 with the U.S. dollar?<

In a word; No. Have you seen the current £/$ exchange rate? I spoke to a friend of mine in ForEx who said "As long as we're making money and they're not they can stick their euro up their bloody "

Liam.

"The difficulty is if we don't join we never will know, will we?"

I didn't say "never". I don't know if the European Central Bank can be trusted yet. Nor do I know what handing over all control we have over our interest rates etc. will mean. I'm not going to do those things and take a big risk simply because I was to stick two fingers up at Rupert Murdoch and the Daily Mail, which I think is what most pro-euro sentiment ultimately boils down to.

Interesting perspective Zagreb.

I am pro euro because I believe that the long term interests (both economic and political)of the UK are best served by being a member.

I couldn't care less what the Mail or Murdochs rags think or say.

I am interested in the reasoned rational arguments of the No lobby in the same way as I am interested in any reasoned rational argument.

I've not been keeping tabs on this thread for a while but just to pick up on some points:

Giford (post 101) & some of the others

You are perfectly correct. Businesses will look at the relative cost of closure (amongst many other things) of manufacturing plants in different countries, but this only proves my point.

To take the example given (Massey Fergusson), the factory to be closed has been making tractors for a very long time (decades) and once upon a time was originally started and owned by a UK company, with no other manufacturing plant, anywhere. Now it is owned by a US company with facilities in many countries. Why close the UK factory? Because it is cheaper than closing any of the other European factories that Agco have purchased.

Whereas Nissan, Honda, et al, have invested heavily in the UK over the past twenty years precisely because we have such convenient employment laws (as well as a good skill base and government incentive). Most of these foreign investors have very little manufacturing capabilily elsewhere in Europe.

BlueShark (post 102)

Nissan and others are concerned about their long term exposure to currency fluctuations. The pound has traditionally been a fairly strong currency in the Eurozone and still is. There is little evidence to suggest that this will change in the foreseeable future. Of course Nissan and others wouldn't be at all worried if the pound was relatively weak against the Euro, because they would then be coining it in.

Simon (post 105)

According to the DTI, manufacturing accounts for 20% of the economy, employs 4 million people, accounts for 60% of UK exports and directly supports a considerable number of jobs in the service sector.

Dying, eh?


The third world debt discussion was a little diverting, but hopefully enough people realise that it can't just be cancelled. The world economy is precarious at best, imagine what would happen if everyone's mortgage were cancelled. The world economy would go into total meltdown. Phasing it out might be practical, but it will still take a long time.


A good point on the European Central Bank, Zagreb.

I was under the impression that the bank *should* have issued some reprimands already to some of the Euro participants (Germany?) for failing to meet the spending targets (or limits) set by the bank.

I too need to feel some confidence that the rules of membership are followed and enforced.

The UK is perhaps one of the fairest countries in Europe, at least with regard to trade. I can't say that there is no corruption, but things are relatively open and tendering processes are generally competitive, etc. On a personal note, I can't say I'm bothered particularly about whether the goods I purchase are British, French, German, American or Japanese. I look for quality, cost, etc.

Whereas in my experience to date I don't feel that this attitude is prevalent across Europe. In fact I get the feeling that the opposite is true (perhaps it's the smell of the burning lamb on the docks at Calais, or maybe the BMW treatment of Rover) and the list of penalties imposed by the European Commission on some of the member states does make interesting reading.

just resurrecting this to find the link.......

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,806586,00.html

Train journey must have been long this morning, I had loads of time to find interesting stories like this.