h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

It doesn't really matter what the mechanisms behind astrology are. They can always just talk about strange energies. But when doing a scientific experiment, you use control groups. If you did the same thing in astrology you could see it doesn't work.

If you make a horoscope for a guy, a real one not a tabloid one, and the guy really found it fitted him. Give it to 10 other people, and I'd put money on that more than half would be convinced it was about them.

'... when doing a scientific experiment, you use control groups. If you did the same thing in astrology you could see it doesn't work.'

Did you read my post, Xanatic? Astrology is untestable by scientific methods, because these methods are unsuitable. The sort of vagueness found in astrology has its place. No matter how general the statements it makes, if astrology helps tell people what they half-know about themselves, it is serving some purpose. Which is why people have been using it for so long.

I read your posting yes, but I don't agree with it. It just seems to me you can't claim a horoscope says anything about you, if it also says something about 10 other people with different birthtimes and dates. Then flipping a coin would be just as good.

Unless there is some reliability to astrology, using it cannot make decisions less arbitrary or random. That would be like picking your choices for next weeks lottery by adding one to the previous weeks winners: you are following a process but the outcome is still arbitrary and does not track what will actually happen.

You can carry a coin into the room on a velvet cushion but how it lands is still random.

How about some reverse horoscope testing - someone sets out a set of categories (like a personality test), people rate themselves on those categories (maybe with the help of friends), and give a set of 5 or 10 random birthdates plus their own, and an astrologer can pick whichever one (or two) dates they think are likeliest, and whicever one (or two) they think are the unlikeliest.
At least that avoids the problem of someone trying to fit themselves to a given description, and to some extent avoids problems with slightly different interpretations of the same data by astrologers - it should be (relatively) easy to interpret the best and worst fits without delving into minutiae.

I was born in the Roseville up by Sacremento. I was born at 8:28pm.

OK TwoBit, the story so far;

You are serious about everything you do and are motivated by your need for security, making sure that nothing threatens your family, income or possessions. You are a defender of the traditional values such as honesty, hard work and responsible behavior. You need to be under some sort of stress before you feel comfortable and that's because you thrive on hard work where you can show off your abilities in getting things done under difficult circumstances. You are also good at carrying emotional burdens without whimpering.
You don't go out of your way to change the world around you. Instead, you bide your time and wait for the right moment to try to improve matters, avoiding confrontations wherever possible. However, if pressed, you can assert yourself with suprising vigor. You get your strength from the faith in your beliefs, and from your determination to endure any difficulty if it will help you achieve your goals in life.
Your enthusiasm is tempered by practicality and your logic is tempered by emotion. Planning a vacation can make you very exited but you can cancel it without remorse if it becomes necessery to do so. You think things out carefully before coming to a decision though sometimes you can be impulsive. You live your life in the here and now, unconcerned by memories of the past or warnings of the future.
Friends consider you conservative, others may say you are obstinate. In either case, you resist change untill you can see it makes sense (based on practical considerations). You take care of your body and personal surroundings. You approach life with high hopes because of your deep sense of self-worth (in spite of some occasional setbacks).

Alji

Oh come on, all you had to do to achieve that last posting was read half a dozen of two bit's postings... he's ex-military and a policeman, of course that description fits, it would fit about half a million policemen in the US... that wasn't really very impressive.

All good then? LOL

I have to agree, I could have given the same description of him without looking at a birthchart.

My computer dosn't know him, all I did was input the birth info.

I go through my books when I do the full assesment to check if they agree with the computer program.

Alji

Which of the programmes do you use?

One of the cheapest you can buy from Expert Software, Expert Astrologer.

Alji

BTW I am conducting a poll of researc hers sun signs at A712595.

Alji

Mind the gap! More room inside! A712595 Come along now.

Alji

Xanatic - sorry about the petulance yesterday, but I don't think you get what I'm on about. There is a reliability to astrology, which is why, whether I believe in it or not, I am quite a typical Gemini. Of course, other Geminis may not be typical, but the character assessment remains similar for them. No astrologer would say that Gemini as a star sign represents inflexible steadfastness. Each star sign has several fixed characteristics - it's only when they're combined (i.e. when you make a chart) that the 'interpretation' comes in (e.g. because there is a contradiction between two traits that needs to be resolved) and that's where it becomes an 'art'. But, true or not, as long as you don't take it too seriously it's harmless.

Cashlessness - Add one to last week's lottery numbers: decision - fixed; result - still random. Astrology is like flipping a coin and calling heads, rather than just a cushion to carry the coin on. It helps people to make decisions. It may not affect the result, but it reduces the randomness (or, more clearly , indecision) before the fact.

Jack N - I can see what you mean. In situations where people are genuinely undecided about something, dabbling in astrology or some such system can give people confidence to make their minds up. I can see that it can have healthy psychological consequences as well as bad ones. These days, everyone feels thoroughly responsible for their career, body-shape, relationships & health. With the constant pressure of self-determination, a little bit of fatalism might be good for the soul.

That doesn't of course mean there's any truth to astrology, but who's to say truth is good for us anyway?

Potholer's idea sounds good - I'll volunteer 10 birthdates/places/times and then we can use my journal as the personality categorisation process.

2nd April 1980, Fulham, 0730

1st October 1980, Weston-Super-Mare, 1410

19th August 1980, Bournemouth, 0150

27th January 1981, Leeds, 2245

15th May 1981, Blackburn, 1320

6th March 1980, Wolverhampton, 0640

19th Feburary 1981, Ealing, 1010

30th September 1980, Edinburgh, 2320

23rd November 1980, Cardiff, 0920

29th December 1980, Norfolk, 2000

Hope this isn't too much work for you

Stay ,
WD

I'll try to give a brief summary of each, but it might take a while to do as I am working 12 hour nights the rest of this week.

Alji

Hiya!

No problem

Stay ,
WD