A Conversation for Ask h2g2

'Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 81

Apollo

I first sat down and began The Fellowship about 10 years ago. I struggled and fought to get through that first book...the tedious descriptions of every little detail...the constant "flashbacks" and explanations of the Elder Days...it seemed overwhelming. But I pushed myself through The Two Towers, and finally to the Return of the King. In that last book, all of Tolkien's dwelling on detail is given credence. The beauty and majesty of the characters are revealed...the depth of Tolkien's framework is laid bare...and, in the end, Tolkien accomplishes something fantastic. He makes you feel as if you've gone on the Quest yourself.

After that, I read the trilogy again, and my appreciation for the first two books grows every time I read them. I now enjoy The Fellowship almost as much as The Return. The care Tolkien takes to create his world astounds me...even more so after reading The Silmarillion. And I believe that is Tolkien's true allure...the more you get involved in his world, the more you want to know. He created his own Pantheon of gods with their own histories, he created languages, he created civilizations with their own heroes and villians, and he created a work of art that is unrivaled by any.

Of course...that is just my opinion...smiley - smiley

smiley - magic --Apollo


'Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 82

Imaldris

Right on Apollo. I was trying to say something along those lines in my multiple posts earlier in this forum (though they came out astoundingly inadequate and not at all what i was really trying to say.) Good form!

smiley - devil


'Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 83

NexusSeven

"He makes you feel as if you've gone on the Quest yourself." - Couldn't have (and didn't smiley - winkeye ) put it better myself... smiley - smiley


'Talking rubbish about Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 84

Huw (ACE)

Babel said:

"The remark about "no real woman" did it for me!!
Kill the thing Huw.
Quickly and painlessly (if that's possible)."

I would, but I think I'll take Ben's advice instead. I'm going to sit back and see how it develops further.

You hear that, everyone? You have my full permission to say what you want now smiley - winkeye


'Talking rubbish about Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 85

Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit

My two pence:

I read and loved the series, and I'm looking forward to the movies. However, I'm not entirely sure that it's the best series around. It is the series that really opened the genre of fantasy, and it was the one that opened it for me, as well. However, that opening occurred for me at age 10-11. I've gone back and read other works that I loved in my teen years, and found them a bit lacking. It could also be with them.

The opening criticism of the lack of characterization is valid. The characters really are poorly defined archetypes, with the possible exceptions of Bilbo and Frodo Baggins.

I disagree about the lack of action, however. Something always seems to be happening to the party. Some of those action scenes are rather intense, but the most intense ones don't occur until the middle of the trilogy.


'Talking rubbish about Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 86

Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit

Okay, now having skimmed through the backlog...

... Huw is asking why it is considered a classic, and why it is so popular...

Classic: Despite some other opinions to the contrary, it is considered a classic in literary circles, so much so that The Hobbit is actually on the high school reading list... my English class covered it when I was in 9th grade. A novel has to be somewhat groundbreaking and/or inspiring to be considered a classic. LotR basically established the rules of great fantasy. It developed a formula, consisting of the Epic Quest, the Enchanted Object, and the Villain Who Will Doom the World, who can only be thwarted by the Unlikely Hero. Check your fantasy, ladies and gentlemen, and you will find these elements, used by all the modern greats like Robert Jordan, David Eddings, Raymond Feist, Weiss & Hickman, the lady who wrote the Pern books, ...

Popular: Hey, some people just like the story.


'Talking rubbish about Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 87

Apollo

A bit on my view of Tolkien's characters:

Tolkien didn't use the main characters in the Quest the way most modern writers would. Their individual personalities are not his focus. Rather, he used each character in a symbolic way, to represent the different cultures of Middle Earth. Gimli represented the hardship and grimness of the dwarves, who can at times be merry. Legolas represented the ancient knowledge and skill of the elves, who live at their own pace. Aragorn represented the Rangers of the wild, with their power and majesty veiled. Until you come to understand the cultures of Tolkien's world, you cannot fully understand the characters themselves.
Perhaps this explains why Frodo and Sam seem the most fully developed...they are the cornerstone of the hobbit culture. While understanding Aragorn requires looking back on Isildur, Earendil, and all the line of Kings. Tolkien has created a very complex world, and it all comes together in the Quest of the Ring.

And as for the lack of women...well, we all have our faultssmiley - smiley

smiley - magic --Apollo


'Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 88

Dolphin Girl: Patron Saint of Incoherent Ramblings; Keeper of Flutes and Singing Watches

I can't speak for anyone else but I read to escape into a different world. I like to lose myself completely in that world. Tolkein has created Middle Earth so perfectly that it is easy to believe that it could be real and I can lose myself completely.
Tolkein may not give long, windy descriptions of how a character thinks, he just gives the result of that thinking. I like this because it allows you to discover the character for yourself.
Oh, and I have to agree with an earlier post - Tolkein's baddies were real evil. They scared me so much and I still harbour a vague horror for the name Sauron.


'Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 89

Gnomon - time to move on

So when someone says "I saw Ron down the pub yesterday", Dolphin Girl shudders!


'Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 90

Dolphin Girl: Patron Saint of Incoherent Ramblings; Keeper of Flutes and Singing Watches

If I'm gonna be picky... it depends on how you pronounce Sauron. I do it kinda as SAOW-RON. Spoils the joke a bit - sorry smiley - tongueout


'Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 91

Gnomon - time to move on

I knew that, but I thought I'd make the joke anyway. Tolkien himself wanted it to be pronounced "sow-ron" as in "there's something sour on these chips" (shudder).


'Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 92

Orcus

Interesting that one. It is to be pronounced in that way according to the appendices in LotR but I recently got a CD with him reading excerpts from the book and he himself pronounces it in both ways (ie Sawron and Sowron". Intriguing smiley - winkeye


'Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 93

Huw (ACE)

Maybe an accent thing?


'Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 94

King Cthulhu of Balwyniti

*shakes head* Shouldn't be, accent differences like that are at a phonetic level (eg: different pronunciations of the 'a' in hat), whereas aw and au are phonemically different (ie: 'a' and 'o' are different phonemes), and the appendices in LotR make it pretty clear that, whatever phonetic differences there may be, the phoneme to be used is 'au'...strange then...smiley - smiley


'Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 95

Cloviscat

What CD is that, please, Orcus?


'Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 96

Orcus

Iw was a CD that came 'free' with the book when I bought the 'Millenium Edition' of the Lord of the Rings (Hard back with the book in Seven Voumes - ie. each book is individual plus the Appendices get a separate volume). I don't know any other way of getting hold of it.
Its a series of recordings made by C.S. Lewis as Tolkein used to visit him while he was writing it and read passages to him which C.S. Lewis recorded onto tape. Its mostly elven verses read in Elven (both High Elven and in Sindarin) but includes some prose sections too. The two different pronunciations are in two different passages and I only noticed when my brother remarked 'Ah so he does pronounce it Sawron'. I had heard different and so to settle the argument we listened to it again, turned out we'd noticed different excerpts.
I put it down to the fact that they were made when the book was a work in progress and that he himself may not have decided upon the final pronunciation at the time.

smiley - smiley


Uglùk

Post 97

typolifi

I wonder what you all mean about the black characters being black. The fact they make you shudder doesn't imply their blackness is absolute. What's the sense of all that part of Ainulindalë on Melkor *becomingy* evil if it's not the case


'Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 98

King Cthulhu of Balwyniti

Dammit, I bought that set for my sister but didn't get a CD...smiley - sadface


'Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 99

Cloviscat

Any chance of a cassette? smiley - smooch


'Tolkien boring' shock!

Post 100

Orcus

Of course. Im a sucker for a smiley - kisssmiley - smiley

I'll post my spammable email address on my homepage and just drop me a line smiley - smiley for where to send it.

(Its hotmail so it gets spammed continuously anyway smiley - cross)


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