h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

In the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, many Americans were truly surprised that anybody should want to attack the USA – comments like "We don't know why they hate us" abounded.

Let me make it absolutely clear before continuing that I have nothing against the general population of the USA – I've never met an American that I didn't like (except for the guy at school who was mean to me – but I never saw him again after age 13 so he doesn’t count), but then that's probably because I've never met an American in a powerful position.

If we draw a distinction between the general population of the US and the US establishment then reasons for the attacks become much clearer. For the hatred many people across the world have for "the USA" is in fact hatred for demonstrated (as distinct from stated) US Foreign Policy.

The US establishment has betrayed the core values which it professes to follow and on which the United States itself was founded. Controversial? Here's why I have that view, and if people have robust evidence to the contrary I would be genuinely delighted to hear it. When I refer to the "US" in what follows, I mean the US Establishment.

Untruth:

The Pentagon has established a Misinformation Directorate, to feed lies to civilian populations in countries the US takes a dislike to - in order to buy support for US policy

Injustice:

After 9/11 George Bush stressed the importance of International Co-operation. Shortly before the establishment of the International Criminal Court on 1 July 2002, the US sent a message to the UN stating that it had absolutely no intention of ratifying the treaty which established the court. Apparently the US is concerned that its own citizens might be tried for human rights abuses…

Recently the UN set up a Draft Optional Protocol to the Convention Against Torture, which would allow UN Inspectors to examine conditions in jails, other detention centres and similar facilities operated by signatories to the Protocol. The US refused to sign this. It's worth noting that Amnesty International has been strongly critical of the treatment of prisoners in many US states.

The American Way (i): Democracy

Democracy abroad: William Blum's book "Rogue State" catalogues numerous examples of the US perverting the course of elections in other countries. On this site, see for example http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A716591 - 11 September, 1973 - The Day Democracy Died in Chile .

Democracy in the US: Greg Palast, an investigative reporter, reports in his book "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" that some 57,700 people had been removed from the California electoral register in advance of the 2000 elections. The reason given was that they were criminals not entitled to vote but in fact, according to Palast, this was not true in the majority of cases. What these people did have in common was that they were black – and therefore statistically more likely to vote Democrat than Republican.

Then there's the fact that in a true democracy, each citizen gets equal representation. Not so in a "first-past-the-post" system such as in the UK and US, which are majority dictatorships rather than true democracies. So the "world's greatest democracy" is in fact not!.

The American Way (ii): Freedom

I'll ignore the philosophical debate about whether Capitalism is consistent with true freedom; that’s outside the scope of these discussions.

Free trade: The US claims to espouse free trade. Indeed, the IMF and the World Bank impose it on developing countries. Yet the US continues to subsidise its exports and tax its imports, disadvantaging poor countries. For example, since winning the last election George W has put a tariff of some 20% on steel imports. Coincidentally he had only gained marginal electoral victories in states who rely on the steel industry...

Freedom of speech: George W was invited to a University function as students were graduating. There was a plan for some of the students to turn their backs on him in protest at his policies. The University administration got wind of this and made it clear that any students who took part risked not being awarded their degrees. And this can happen in a "free country"?

The American Way (iii): Human rights

Only two countries have failed to adopt the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child – the US and Somalia. The US wishes to continue to send 16 and 17 year-old children into conflict situations.

In 1982 and 1983 the US was alone in the UN in voting against a declaration that education, work, health care, proper nourishment and national development are human rights.

In 1996, at a UN-sponsored World Food Summit, the US took issue with an affirmation by the summit of the "right of everyone to have access to safe and nutritious food". The US insisted that it does not recognise a "right to food".

See the Amnesty International website for further details of US human rights abuses and for details of the UN Conventions which the US has yet to ratify (including an open letter to George W Bush when he came to power): http://www.amnesty.org.uk/

The American Way (iv): A better world for our children

Well since the US has failed to ratify the Kyoto treaty (even the People's Republic of China and the Russian Federation are in the process of doing so), perhaps it doesn’t even plan to leave any world at all to our children…

Besides, check out http://members.aol.com/bblum6/booming.htm ...

so true, so true, but they all fail to see it.
Maybe if we went to America with the evidense and shouted it from the streets,
'These are all the countries that have had their democracies ruined by the US, these are the dictators brought into power by the US, these are the terrorists funded by the US(Many forget the CIA's admittance af 'friendly' terrorists, and the American funding of the IRA), these are the innocents killed by the US, this is why the world sees you as it does.'

Still probably wouldnt help...

I agree. American indifference would seem to be a real problem; people don't care unless it's entertaining.

Greg Palast (investigative reporter) says that while the Monica Lewinsky saga was going on, he found some evidence of seriously disturbing events relating to US policy by the Clinton administration. He took these to a contact in the US media, who declined to publish them. When Palast asked why the reply was "Because nobody gives a s**t".

The fact that the US government is the biggest terrorist organisation in the world!

Indeed. Shortly after the terrorist attacks George W Bush said that he would show zero tolerance for those who financed, equipped and trained terrorists. Yet that's exactly what the US did through Central America, in Afghanistan (ironically it was the US who brought the Taliban to power, overthrowing a progressive government committed to such things as equal gender rights) and in that other "axis of Evil" member, Iraq (to name only a few examples).

When is the USA going to attack itself in the War on Terror?

They really have a lot more in common than they think, their 'you're either with us or against us' attitude, the fact that they always need someone to blame, that they can only solve things with violence....

Good point. Did you see the "What if they don't stop" thread for information on where the US money is going and where it could be going if they took a more appropriate view?

Thanks, a lot, all of you. P***ks. "They" don't get it all, do "they"? So much for this place being a safe, tolerant forum for discussion. Yeah, just because I have a blue passport, you think I don't know what goes on in the rest of the world. Of course, I immediatly jumped on the bandwagon, wrapped myself in a flag, and started firebombing mosques. No, actually.
After watching from the neighborhood where I grew up, as the towers fell, I realized that I'd barely escaped. I was supposed to have been campagining on the street in the financial district that morning, talking to people about the environment. I worked for Greenpeace, and althougth this may surprise you, a lot of Americans care about the state of our planet. I was late to work, thank god. In a panic I called the rest of my team. They all made it out, after witnessing the horro. Then it dawned on me that the many firefighters I know were there, in the middle of all that carnage. I grew up next to a firehouse in Brooklyn. The guy that taught me how to ride a bike died on September 11, along with five others of New York's bravest who were my friends. They all left behind children.
I became a switchboard that day, as both my parents, working in Manhattan, were unreachable. Our relatives and friends from all over Europe, and from places as far as Indonesia, Georgia (Black Sea Georgia), and Japan tried frantically to make sure that we were ok. The next day some of the subways started running and I got into Manhattan. I went to Union Square, where already there was a huge improptu memorial, people weeping for lost ones but at the same time begging for peace. I think there were more messages there calling for NO military retaliation than there were "Missing" posters, which is hard to imagine. We're not all bloodthirsty warmongers, you see.
But that was only the beginning. I miss my friends. But I am also grieving for my city, the way it used to be, the way it will never be again. I miss riding the subway and the worst thing that could happen way maybe I get mugged. In early October I was on a packed rush-hour train pulling into Times Square, when suddenly we stop, there's a loud crack, the car fills with acrid white smoke, and I start choking. The doors won't open and I'm thinking, this is it, it's a gas attack or something, I'm going to die. All through the fall I worked for Greenpeace on the street, trying to explain to people that even after all of this, we still need a world we can live ein, water ewe can drink, air we can breath. But every time I heard a siren, my heart just froze. I dont live there anymore, and right now my heart is aching that I'm not there. My city, my home, will never be the same, but today I still want to be there, with people of every origin, ethnicity, religion. People who know what it was like to be choked by that smell, people who are way underestimated. New Yorkers.
Yes, I agree that the US's foreign policy is generally abominable. I have marched on Washinton, I have campainged for peace, for trees, for cutting the debt load of developing countries. Because I think my government has frequently got it wrong on these and many other issues. I agree that the US government has not addressed collassal problems which lead people to hate us. But DARE you say that "none of them get it"? How DARE you belittle other's grief and pain?

allow me to quote Budhavista...

'Let me make it absolutely clear before continuing that I have nothing against the general population of the USA – I've never met an American that I didn't like (except for the guy at school who was mean to me – but I never saw him again after age 13 so he doesn’t count), but then that's probably because I've never met an American in a powerful position.

If we draw a distinction between the general population of the US and the US establishment then reasons for the attacks become much clearer. For the hatred many people across the world have for "the USA" is in fact hatred for demonstrated (as distinct from stated) US Foreign Policy.

The US establishment has betrayed the core values which it professes to follow and on which the United States itself was founded. Controversial? Here's why I have that view, and if people have robust evidence to the contrary I would be genuinely delighted to hear it. When I refer to the "US" in what follows, I mean the US Establishment.'

I have displayed the same sentiment in many of my posts, and where i havent it does not mean that it doesnt exist.

I have had long conversations with 'doves', and you dont have to tell me that not all Americans are trigger pumping, bloodthirsty war mongers. Today I am thinking about those who died last year, but I am also thinking about every other innocent that has died due to it.

Believe me ExpatChick, we need the people like you to save us from the people we are talking about. Thank you.

sorry Bodhisattva not Buddha vista wista pista

Subject: Don't forget
Posted 2 Hours Ago by M Fishie, keeper of the magic fingers (And the
enormous eyes as well)
This is a reply to this Posting.
Post: 6


They really have a lot more in common than they think, their 'you're
either with us or against us' attitude, the fact that they always need
someone to blame, that they can only solve things with violence....



If this were true, and all of "us" could only solve things with violence, I'd be punching my conputer right about now, for showing me the above text.

ExpatChick, note the use of 'they' in that post. Not 'every single living resident of the USA' just plain old 'they'. Meaning group of people.

Please ExpatChick, we are on the same side...

ExpatChick,

We are not "belittling other's grief and pain", not at all. We are trying to explain *Why* you are grieving and in pain. I'm sure we all take your point about your dislike for US policies, you seem a very responsible type - but why aren't the US administration listening to you? (And the rest of the World of course!)

And, as someone horrified and by the scale in NY, I think we should leave the people affected to grieve in peace now. The whole event has ben totally unnatural - thousands die everyday right? - but not all in one place, all at once, in the eye of the World. I think we now need to let the people affected grieve in peace. Unfortunately, that will never happen, in the same way people here will never forget Hungerford, Lockerbie, Manchester, Omagh, Ineskillin (or however you spell it).

Sorry, and War won't help anyone .

Bambi

sdygfWIHF uhfoIFOJH yoofnli ji iiqqo qiu uiq ui

Thank you, Bambi, I realize that war won't help anyone. Did I not make my views clear?
As for leaving people to grieve in peace... everyone grieves differently. I, for example, being far from home, spent most of the day reading, looking at pictures, trying to get a sense of what New York is like one year on (I haven't been back since I left in December). The grieving process is always hard, and in my case I find it really difficult to work through these emotions, through my memories of that day, memories of my friends, alone. No matter how sympathtic (or unsympathetic) people are, if you weren't there or weren't personally affected on some level, you really don't understand. I was looking for some people with whom to share my thoughts, in the hope that it would help a bit. But instead I just get worked up having to defend myself and all the other Americans who, despite what our personal beliefs and actions might be, are constantly lectured on what "we" are doing wrong in the world.

Hi ExpatChick,

I'm truly sorry that you were upset by the discussions going on here

Please know that I do sympathise with your loss. It upsets me when other people suffer, and I wouldn't wish what you have gone through on anybody.

"No matter how sympathtic (or unsympathetic) people are, if you weren't there or weren't personally affected on some level, you really don't understand."

That statement underestimates the power of human imagination and empathy. The vast majority of people are able to imagine what it must be like to face such a loss and empathise with those who are suffering. May I encourage you to try to let people in rather than tell them they don't know what they're talking about? Certainly you will find many who really don't know what they're talking about, but it's worth at least searching for that support.

For what it's worth, I myself lost somebody close under tragic circumstances. It wasn't related to September 11th, but something else. I have an idea what you must be going through and although it's no comfort now I can tell you that things do get better with time. I wouldn't say that time heals completely; of course you'll never forget and anniversaries of the event will bring memories much closer. High profile events like 9/11 much amplify that effect. But if my experience is typical, then you will find that it becomes easier to deal with as time goes on. Try not to shut people out, try to accept how you feel and not to worry if you think that things aren't getting better. It will of course be painful for a long while, but then one day you'll realise that things don't seem as bad as they used to.

I also remember getting that kind of advice from people when my loss occurred and thinking I wish they'd shut the f**k up, so perhaps I shouldn't have said anything, but there it is. Feel free to tell me to "shut the f**k up"!

"But instead I just get worked up having to defend myself and all the other Americans"

Please know that you DON'T have to defend yourself and all Americans - as far as I can tell people on this site are NOT attacking you and all Americans, just the US Establishment. They too wish for people to be happy and avoid suffering, and if they seem angry it is out of frustration that the current US administration appears to have learned nothing from 9/11 - which risks the danger that they will provoke further attacks and thus further suffering. The discussions are expressions of frustration and anger and thus surely legitimate expressions of feelings which came from those events?

"despite what our personal beliefs and actions might be, are constantly lectured on what "we" are doing wrong in the world."

Only the administration was criticised. And US foreign policy IS notable in its deficiency of international co-operation.

I hope that some of what I've said helps and that none of it upsets you further.

Please accept my deepest sympathy. I'll pray for you.

I appreciate your views - yes you made them clear, that was more a comment of sadness and despair .

I don't understand and yet I do - I understand what you say and that you feel your more alone at a time like this. Feel free to share your thoughts - if you just want to write and not get abuse(!), write my personal page.

I'm sorry you feel the need to "defend yourself and all the other Americans who, despite what our personal beliefs and actions might be, are constantly lectured on what "we" are doing wrong in the world" - it's just that we, elsewhere, have a different perspective and all we seem to hear are comments from the US administration like "this was the most important day for the last 100 years".

We feel that because of the sensitivities, we can't speak out incase people think we ARE insensitive, but many of us feel that too much is laid on revenge and not enough on peace. Also remember, distance gives us the perspective to see that many more than 3000 DO die every day. H2g2 is the one place we can speak our minds a bit and hide behind the annonimity it affords. Please just understand that there is only so many times we can say that we are sorry it happened. People died, let's try to prevent more dying... together.

Thank you Bodhisattva. And I realize that I over-reacted, it's just that I have been through similar conversations so many times in the last year (and before) that I get really frustrated. Because of my personal beliefs (and how often they conflict with 'US policy') the situation is further confused: I got so fed up with America that I left. So on the one hand I cheer along for America-bashing, but on the other I know that there are so many Americans who dont agree with the establishment... and that's something that many people from elsewhere don't focus on. Bush and his inexcusable foul-ups with his native tongue, are on every TV around the world, but peace activists don't get the same coverage, so the (truth-based) ideas about American unilateralism, etc, come across as if that's what everyone thinks. Along those lines, I wish I could post some photographs here, because the associated press has some great shots of peace demonstrators in front of the UN last week. I'm sure you all saw Shrub banging his war-drum, but you didn't see Patti Smith on a bull-horn, or the wide range of protestors (students, war vets), all Americans, all calling for and end to the violence, and the Iraq sanctions.

You're welcome, ExPatChick. I understand your frustration, and the way the media portrays things gets to me too. Activists concerned to make the world a better place get portrayed as reactionary anarchists (if they get any coverage at all), a peaceful demonstration is labelled violent if a handful of uninvited people come along to cause trouble (in the case of Genoa, the Italian police!) - it all becomes infotainment rather than information!

I wonder if Bush is so OTT that things will start to change, though - did you see how Colin (which by the way is Col-in not Co-lin - can't the guy pronounce his own name?! )was heckled at the Jo'burg Summit? And then we have a situation where GW doesn't actually have any support for action against Iraq (yet) and must see that attitudes towards the US establishment are starting to move from admiration to bare tolerance.

Entering the realms of waffle now - sorry. See ya.