h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The concept of karma is often misunderstood as being some kind of system of reward and punishment. In fact (according to my understanding – feel free to correct!) it is the law of cause and effect.

If a person commits harmful actions then the harm caused itself creates the conditions in which that person is more likely to come to harm himself in the future.

So a simple example would be that if you take advantage of your neighbours then they are likely to be less trusting of you in the future, so may hesitate in giving help if you need it, thus you sow the seeds for your own suffering.

Or if you are a government which repeatedly refuses to co-operate in international matters and indeed adopts an oppressive foreign policy which causes the suffering of millions of people, then you may find that you get attacked by kamikaze-style pilots.

Why does the US government appear to be so blind to the changes in behaviour it needs to adopt?

Hi Bodhisattva,

I disagree with your interpretation of Karma, but that is another discussion altogether.

However, I do agree with the sentiments expressed. If you give someone a hard time, they are going to give you a hard time back. Life can be that simple.

Regards

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

I would be interested in your views on Karma. Can we discuss that here? It seems to be quite a quiet conversation, so I don't think we're going to clutter things up...

Hi Bodhisattva

My interpretation of Karma was based on something I read many years ago, long before there was anything like the Internet. However, before replying to you post, I did some research in order to get some supporting information.

It turns out that I have been labouring under miss-information all these years. I was led to believe that Karma was the belief that everything was pre-ordained and that there was little we could do to change what the fates had in store for you. Something I did not go along with, both for spiritual and secular reasons. It turns out that your interpretation is the right one - that for everything we do, there is an equal and opposite reaction. This I can go along with, both spiritually and secularly as it also conforms to Isaac Newton’s 3rd Law of Motion.

Another interesting thing I did find is that the concept of Karma appears in both the Hindu and Buddhist religions. Each have similar but slightly different interpretations:

The Buddhist version:

http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/freenet/rootdir/menus/sigs/religion/buddhism/introduction/truths/karma2.html

The Hindu Version:

http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/karma.html

Newton’s 3rd Law of Motion:

http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Den/2335/Newton.htm



Best wishes

Stuart

Thanks Stuart.

I've not yet read the sites, but I definitely will; thanks for finding them. Newton's third law indeed! (Interestingly, the proportion of the Physicist population who believe in God is higher than the proportion of the general population - seeing rules of the Universe as order within some grand design?)

I thought you might be interested in the following:

In once sense Buddhism could be seen as developing from Hinduism; I believe that the Buddha spent his formative years in what is now Nepal, within a Hindu society, and thus we find links between the two religions. Key "changes" (if we accept the development idea) were that the Buddha did not incorporate any Hindu scriptures into his teaching, and that he rejected the caste system - the principle of equanimity, whereby each sentient life is of equal inherent value, is important in Buddhist philosophy.

I absolutely agree with you on the philosophy of pre-ordination. But then perhaps I was always going to say that...

Karma is also found in Wicca in a slightly different form. It is referred to as the law of 3 ( sometimes 7, depends on what branch ). Essentially it states that everything you do comes back to you x 3 (or 7). Makes causing harm a rather frightening process if you think about it.

Hi Sithkael,

Glad to meet you, especially since you're the first pagan I've met. Thanks for that info on the wicca version of Karma. Is the law of 3 one that works both ways, ie. good x 3 somes back to you for altruistic acts?

Yes it works both ways--good and bad. Not necessarily in this lifetime though ;-P.

First pagan you've met eh? Wow, I'd better make a good impression then.

Hi Sithkael,

You already did, from your introduction page!

Is it OK if I fire the odd question at you? Like do you know the name of the pagan goddess of spring? I think "Easter" is a corruption of her name but I don't know what her name actually is.

Fire away, if I can't or don't want to answer I'll let you know. Here's a hint though--pagan is a generic term usually used to descibe any person who believes in more than one deity. There are a lot of different kinds of pagan, and each tradition has different gods/goddesses and beliefs. Asking the pagan name of a diety or way of doing something will generally get the return question "What flavor of pagan?".

That having been said I believe your thinking of Eostre/Ostra (Celtic pantheon). Ostra is also often used to refer to the Vernal Equinox (approx March 20), from which many modern Easter traditions are taken.

Hope that is what you were looking for

I too believe that Karma is cause and effect, but know that people also follow the belief that it means no free will
This is diabolical in my humble opinion and the death of all hope
To often I have found in my experience that people think Karma means ; 'not my responsibilty' and therein lies a danger.

Sithkael - thanks.

I was interested to learn that "Pagan" comes from the Latin word "paganus" which meant "country dweller."

I also found a website you may be interested in, which says that "We recommend that the terms "Pagan" and "Paganism" never be used unless:
It is carefully defined in advance, or
Its meaning is clearly understandable from the context of the text."

(see http://www.religioustolerance.org/paganism.htm )

Seems quite a good site I think. It's a refreshing change to find writing on different religions which is not blatantly from the perspective of one religion convinced it is "the right way"...



Hasslefree - I agree with you about the predestination view. Some people continue to hold that view whilst at the same time stressing the importance of striving to be good; which feels like a contradiction. Their justifications seem to take the form that people destined for heaven (or whatever incentive structure has been incorporated into their particular religion) are destined to strive to be good. This sort of view may have led to such things as the strong Protestant work ethic; people working hard for good to show others that they must have been preselected for heaven.

It seems to me remarkable how many people choose conclusions (beliefs) then seek pseudo-rational justifications of those beliefs, rather than interpreting facts and evidence to arrive at a set of philosophically sound beliefs.

People walking backwards bump into things.



Ooh, I like what I just said there - might put it on my intro site.

May I wish you all a very happy Bodhidharma Day

Does this involve any particular festivities?
Am I likely to get a present ?

How about a wish for your happiness?

That will do very nicely. Thank you

You're welcome. There's an interesting debate going on at http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/F55607?thread=192835&post=2459963#p2459963 (God - fact or fiction). Thought you might like to know. Bod

And to answer your earlier question ...

"Does this involve any particular festivities?"

Bodhidharma's Day commemorates the first Zen patriarch, who brought Zen to China from India in the sixth century. Buddhist festivals are always joyful occasions. People usually go to the local temple or monastery and offer food to the monks, participate in congregational prayers and chanting, and listen to discourses on the Buddhist dharma (teaching).

Have you seen this site

http://www.tricycle.com/dailydharma/dailydharma.shtml

Alji (Join The Guild of Wizards @ U197895)

I have now!

Thank you, kind friend.

Hope you enjoyed your R&R.

(Hope you read this after your R&R not before...)