h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I still can't, one year later, go anywhere without someone trying to sell me an American flag, or at least trying to sell something by using an American flag... How long will this commercialized patriotism-in-a-can-for-sale last?

As long as people are insecure and something as abstract as nationality can be so easily consumed. Flags are a symbol of unity in a time of real uncertainty to so many Americans (not to mention the rest of us).

As far as I can tell (I've not been there yet) the US has long had an obsession with flags and nationality. On imported TV shows there are always American flags everywhere, especially in classrooms and such. Maybe this explains why all the tat sold to tourists in London is plastered with the Union Jack - because 'national identity' is strongly symbolised in flags to Americans. You don't get many Union Jacks proudly billowing in the wind anywhere where I live, which no doubt angers the nationalists, but I can't say I care.

I'm sorry Twinkle, your space doesn't specify where you're from so I don't know if I'm making wild guesses here - but I'm assuming you're from the US so you'll probably know much more about the patriotism of Americans than me. Otherwise why would people be trying to sell you American commercialised patroitism? Silly Mr T!

I reckon it'll last for a lot longer yet. Americans need some stability as their sense of national security has been hit so badly. If flags help, well I won't knock them for it. I guess there's no better time to be a flag manufacturer!

I fear it's going to go on for quite sometime.

It was a horrendous moment and as such it attracts all sorts of actions and emotions. If you feel such purveyors are just climbing on the bandwagon refuse. You only have think of the reaction to the untimely death of Princess Diana

Try remembering that the US is a young nation, has been hurt very deeply, because it believed everyone loved it. It has yet to learn more mature ways.

Is that a lot of people died a horrible death and that there will be more deaths because people of diverse cultures have different ideas of what truth is.

Not just truth, but different ideas on a lot of things. I think that most cultures do share common values. For example all are against evil, but they have very different ideas on what actions, thoughts, deeds etc. count as evil.

But also our impression of one country from the outside is often very different to the way those inside it percieve it to be. And often countries act in such a way that their inhabitants wouldn't know or want to know about it.

Yes, truth about what is good and what is evil, who makes the best pizzas, What God is, what to wear, what to read, etc etc. All different 'truths' to different people.
What is true for the individual is what is real to them.
So what is true?
Aha !

It seems like Pontious Pilate asked Christ the same question.
He never got a satisfactory answer,and we are unlikely to get one either.

There is an answer, but it's incredibly cliched and sloppy !

I saw on one of the other threads today where a researcher said
"That mad man George Bush will do whatever he wants."
To them the truth is that the USA has a madman as president.
Others might not agree that this was the truth.

someone said "That mad man George Bush will do whatever he wants."

this is exactly why the attacks happened in the first place.

Americans have long clutched their security blanket of "no-one has ever sucessfully attacked america (except the japanese, but the try and ignore them)"

Armed with this security blanket, they then use this as an excuse to run american foreign policy for domestic consimption, safe in the illusion that there will be no consequences.

well guess what, on 9/11 the consequences were pointed out.

so how has this changed american behaviour?

for a couple of months they behaved more reasonably, followed by getting more beligerent and going back to business as usual, only more so.

Therefore I am in no doubt that eventually there will be another large incident like this, as the american behaviour which incited it has got worse, not better.

if you don't listen to why people do something, you have little hope of getting them to change their minds (or of changing yours either).

I'm not certain that we can generalise about people in general.
I'm not certain that every American is buried in commerce so deeply that they cannot see each other properly, just as I am certain that not every Muslim believes that violence will cure all ills. I imagine that the scenes of 911 have led many people to behave like humans, that is to divert their attention from something they cannot bear or understand and get back to work, just as others might divert their attentions from the human condition with a holy book or two.
Truth is very real to people and takes different shapes. Trying to get other people to accept our own truths and make them theirs, is what war is all about. This is critical of all humans not nations BTW.
George Bush's addresses to the Nations and Osama bin Ladens videos were all about trying to get the world to accept their truths.

Since both advocate changing people's minds with bombs their truths hold no reality for me.

Sorry. I simply don't agree. War is usually about a nation trying to get access to resources or procecting access to them. Of course, it always has to be 'dressed up' to seem to give it a higher - more moral - purpose, but if the resources weren't there - Oil, iron, coal, potential consumers - the nation's wouldn't be going to war.

On the post 9/11 track. I also don't believe that we can have a 'war on terrorism'. War - for all it's horror is a very organised thing, which depends upon the opposing sides to at least acknowledge one another to be soveriegn 'states'

America is in a bind - it doesn't want to be seen as a traditional imperial power, with territories it controls outside it's own borders, but it is being seen as exactly that.

Whether or not it is the case, the USA is perceived by a significant percentage of the world's population as an oppressive nation. 9/11 was the first event in the 'mainland' campaign against the perceived opressor.

The English people largely didn't understand why the violence in Northern Ireland ended up being enacted in their cities and the violence continued until there was finally a dialog opened which started to address the underlying causes for the conflict.

The acts terrorists commit are 'evil' - and possibly the people that commit them are also 'evil', the terrorist organization will undoubtably attact more than their share of person who likes to simply to cause mayhem, but the organization itself will only thrive and grow in a environment in which there is a strong element of injustice.

Bin Laden and his terrorist network needs to be 'brought to justice', at the same time the injustices that spawned this particular 'monster' needs to be addressed or like the classical hydra another two more 'monsters' will replace it.

Would their truth then be;
I live here so this belongs to me, this oil, this coal, this food?
Perhaps the truth should be that it's all Earth and it belongs to us all. Perhaps if our truth was- enough for every body and not too much for me, the wars would cease.
By believing in 'grab it while it's there' we put ourselves over barrels perhaps.

Objective truths don't exist,
only personal ones.

Is that true?

To me it is !

With regard to Dammedifyou do. As an English person I did understand the Irish question, and had unfortunate personal experience of bombings .
I can't however see where the issue of ownership of any real resources came into this particular terrorist regime.
The Protestants believed they were British and the Catholics believed they were Irish.