h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Right, I have strong feelings about this.

I won't beat around the bush. People have a right to smoke, it's their bodies and they can do what they want to it. By smoking in public, unless it's a small, confined area, I don't think they are "forcing" their smoke on anyone, in the same way that someone driving a car down the street is "forcing" people on the pavement to inhale Carbon Monoxide. I don't smoke, some of my friends do. I don't moralise, or feign superiority because I don't, I know to do so would be bullsh*t.

Public smoking? Well, cigarette smoke *is* carcinogenic, but when dispersed into the atmosphere of a public place, outdoors, it's effects are negligible. No amount of "scientific evidence" will persuade me otherwise. Trying to ban public smoking is an affront to the idea of personal freedom and a disgraceful example of "wrapping people in bubble wrap". There are many things that are massively more dangerous that are not banned simply because people have not had it unthinkingly drummed into them that it's bad and should be banned.

Hear!Hear! I totally agree, if smoke is well dispersed in the open air it is no more offensive than a car or bus going past. I think that if you single out smoking outside as offensive, when many other things are equally as harmful for non-participants, you should possibly think about the activities you perform that may be offensive to others and realise that, although annoying, people have the right to do it.

i.e. comprimise live in peace and harmony

I'm afraid I must disagree. While I agree that people should have the right to do what they want to their bodies, I do not believe they have to the right to do it to other peoples' bodies as well. Walking past a smoker in the street is one thing, but sitting next to one in a restaurant is quite another-- you can hardly compare this particular experience to passing a bus on the road, unless you usually stop and lie down in front of the exhaust pipe with a funnel in your mouth.

What gets me is the sheer rudeness of it-- people seem to have no thought as to the desinty of their second-hand smoke. I once sat in a restaurant next to a table of four smokers and noticed that, after taking a drag, they held their cigarettes out behind them so as not to get smoke in their friend's faces and, instead, in mine. Quite frankly bloody cheeky!

I'm not sure if I think smoking in public places should be made illegal or not. I just think a lot of smokers should be far more considerate about how they smoke and whether or not they're affecting other people.

I'm sorry I should point out I was talking about *outside*, inside it is a different story and smokers should ask non-smokers if it is ok, or go outside!

My point was that outside smoking isn't so bad the smoke is just as dispersed as an engines smoke, which also damages peoples bodies, but you wouldn't call for a ban on cars or have a go at a passing motorist for damaging you health.

But yes alot of smokers should be more considerate, the thing is most are (and most want to stop),they shold be allowed to smoke freely outside as many other things released into the air are far worse for your health than ciggy smoke in the air.

Depends *where* outside... The example I've been using a lot today is that of a bus queue - if the person immediately upwind of you lights up, you get a faceful of smoke with their every exhalation. The only alternative is to move away and lose your place in the queue. If you complain they give you a funny look and say something to the effect of "We're out of doors - of course it's not a problem to you!"

Or if you happen to be walking in the same direction as somone who is smoking. Get caught behind them, and you'll enjoy the full force of their smoke...

Let's see, I like to have a drink now and again. The side effect from that is that I need to go to the toilet.

You (anyone that smokes) like a smoke. The side effect from that is second hand smoke and litter.

It seems to be acceptable for smokers to inflict their side effects on other people, but if I decided to drop my drawers and have a wee next to a smoker (or indeed, all over their hair and clothes so they could smell my side effects when they got home, just like I can smell theirs when I get home) that would be unacceptable. Why is that?

Breathing in someone else's smoke is like being forced to eat their snot. Only worse, as smoke is not a natural bodily function.

Pretty powerful argument, Mina!

Ouch! Interesting argument...

At the end of the day, I think if people want to inhale smoke for fun, they should be able to. But if people don't want to inhale smoke for fun, they shouldn't have to. Of course, this is where it all gets difficult; it'd be nice if humanity could agree on one big compromise here, but since everyone has a different opinion that's slightly difficult. As we've already established.

What we might have here is double negativity, or something like that. You could argue that if someone is bringing something unpleasant into the world then it should be that person who must put up with it, deal with it, and prevent it from happening to other people. Think of it like this:

-- You're in a cafe. You're not smoking. By not smoking, you are fulfilling a personal preference that is in no way annoying other people.

... Compared to:

-- You're in a cafe. You're smoking. By smoking, you are fulfilling a personal preference that may well be annoying other people.

Using this logic, you might say that the smoker is in the wrong. But I don't know if I *do* use that logic...

There's a lot of intolerance for cigarette smoke. People justify their dislike by saying "It's bad for you," or "Second-hand smoke kills," but what they really don't like is the smell. People don't complain about pipe smoke - I rather like it, myself.

I'm a smoker. I smoke the cheapest ultra-light cigarettes I can find. People ask me "Why?" It's because I like to smoke, but I can't find a non-tobacco alternative that will satisfy my hand-to-mouth urge. I've tried a number of non-tobacco cigarettes (no, we're not talking about marijuana!) and they've all been quite horrible. The flavors range from burning paper to burning marshmallows... If somebody could come up with a cigarette-sized mild-flavored non-cancerous smokable object that smelled nice when burning, we'd hear no more about this.

I have to disagree with Mina's analogy. While the smoke from a cigarette can get on your clothes and make them smell bad, spattering somebody with urine can transfer disease. Febreeze will take out the smell of cigarette smoke - urine has to be washed out.

I also have a problem with people taking the high ground when talking about smoking. Making the decision to smoke doesn't mean you're suffering from a deficiency of moral fiber. You might as well say that anybody that isn't a virgin is a slut. Or that drinking a glass of absinthe will turn you into Oscar Wilde. We make choices every day that impinge upon our health in some way - whether it's drinking that beer, eating that piece of cheese, or taking a jog around the block. Sneering at a smoker for smoking is just as reprehensible as sneering at an overweight person for eating a piece of cake. It's their choice - let them live it.

For those who have made the decision to smoke, it's up to them to be responsible smokers. I try not to smoke in a non-smoker's home, unless they've expressed a definite preference for me to do so. I'd rather go outside. If I'm smoking outside, I knock the coal out of the butt and throw it in the trash, rather than decorating the earth with it. When in public places, such as at a concert, I avoid smoking near groups. I don't smoke while walking - there's too much chance of hitting somebody with the lit end of my cigarette.

Unfortunately, not everybody is as responsible as we'd like them to be. In Fort Worth, if the restaurant can offer a separately ventilated area for smokers, then they can have a smoking area. Most restaurants do not. This suits the restaurants just fine - now there is no dilly-dallying over a cup of coffee and a cigarette after dinner, and the busboy can get the table cleared for the next couple. Most bars are smoking only. Preventing the patrons of a bar from smoking would be like keeping them from drinking. I've only been in a couple of bars that were non-smoking, and they were deserted.

Our system works pretty well, except that of course we can't smoke on airplanes. I get pretty airsick on planes, and entirely half of that is the stuffy, hot air. (the other half is the hot and cold air outside tossing the airplane up and down, up and down, urp.... ) They have smoking rooms at airports, but they're small, not well-ventilated, and are usually packed full of smokers. Don't even need to light up - just step in the room and inhale. The smokers get neglected, because they're regarded as being morally inferior. This doesn't make it right to ignore them.

"...Febreeze will take out the smell of cigarette smoke..." - no, it'll just mask it so a smoker won't be aware of it. I've gained a reputation as a bit of a scruff amongst my smoking friends, as when I am going to be spending an evening at their house I dig the cleanest of the dirty washing out of the washing basket and wear that to visit them. This comes from long and painful experience of dressing to go out, spending two hours in their (chain-smoking) company, then having to immediately strip off when I got home and push all the clothes I'd been wearing to the bottom of the washing basket, as if I left them by the bed the stench would stop me from being able to get to sleep. I don't see the point in "wasting" a clean sweater - you wouldn't expect people to put on clean clothes to enter any other toxic environment, would you?

So does your personal freedom dictate that you can irritate and poison people just because you feel like it? Whenever someone smokes near me, I can't breath properly because I'm afraid of inhaling it. But that's all fine and dandy to you, because you own the universe and everything must revolve around your maginificent existence. Trying to argue that there are worse things is just an attempt to divert attention elsewhere. Just because things like bioweapons exist does not mean that smoking in public is suddenly OK and acceptable.

It has not been proven, to my knowledge, that 2nd hand smoke doesn't affect you in any way. As long as it has not been proven, we can only assume that it is hazardous to your health. It is the logical conclusion.

By the way, I'm not forcing anyone to die when I buy an assault rifle and start shooting in random directions in the middle of a crowded street. It's my life, I can do whatever I want with it. If you find it irritating that I'm shooting people, go away! I don't need to hear your whining.

Bottom line: public smokers are selfish people who don't care about the welfare of others and are convinced that they are the center of the known universe. And they have more excuses for their behavior than the sky has stars in it.

"I can't breath properly because I'm afraid of inhaling it"

Well, then, I suggest you hold your breath every time you enter any large city. Some of the things floating in the air there would probably terrify you

I agree that if smokers are being antisocial or rude (someone gave an example from a restuarant involving holding the cigarette in such a way that the smoke reached them) then they should be censured. But saying they can't smoke in an open public place is just zealousness. If you didn't have it drummed into you how "dangerous" it is, you probably wouldn't notice it.

I do. I notice it when I get into a smoker's car, even if they don't smoke while I'm in there. Its really horrible. Smokers never notice it.

"Well, then, I suggest you hold your breath every time you enter any large city. Some of the things floating in the air there would probably terrify you"

Maybe you ignorant fools should stop smoking so I wouldn't have to.

"I agree that if smokers are being antisocial or rude (someone gave an example from a restuarant involving holding the cigarette in such a way that the smoke reached them) then they should be censured. But saying they can't smoke in an open public place is just zealousness. If you didn't have it drummed into you how "dangerous" it is, you probably wouldn't notice it."

I'm not talking about smokers being just antisocial or rude. The fact that they smoke in public clearly indicates that they are selfish and unconcerned with other people. They don't care if someone can't breath or if someone can't stand the smell. They are indifferent about it because they really believe that they are the center of the universe. Their egos are boundless.

, lsdninja!

"They have smoking rooms at airports, but they're small, not well-ventilated, and are usually packed full of smokers. Don't even need to light up - just step in the room and inhale."

-- This is actually one of the most depressing visions of the human persona I've ever seen: getting off a plane in the USA and seeing this little glass box full of people lighting up and inhaling gratefully, fulfilling what suddenly appeared to be a rather sad addiction. I don't know why, it just shook me a bit.

I think that if people want to smoke then fine. But it really annoys me when inconsiderate smokers inflict it on other people; whether you don't like the smoke because of the health risk, the smell, whatever, it doesn't matter. You don't like it and you *should NOT have to put up with it*. I think it's the smoker's responsibility to make sure they do not offend or infringe on anyone else's rights and preferences when persuing their hobby, habit, preference or whatever you want to call it. This is because, quite frankly, the non-smoker has got nothing to do with it and shouldn't have to put up with it.

That is all.

One of the most notable no smoking places is Miami airport - they announce words to the effect that due to the Florida clean air laws, smoking is prohibited in the airport.

You then go out to wait for a taxi or shuttle, under a concrete roof in Miami's humidity and get to breathe the smoke from the ancient taxis that are allowed to ply their trade because they were bigger cars.

So much for clean air.

"they really believe that they are the center of the universe. Their egos are boundless."

And you're telling me you're *not* a zealot?

I smoke, and I can assure you - 'though not too strongly - that I have no ego. It fits nicely with my no willpower and no self-respect. But I can admit to being annoyed with being lumped in with the inconsiderate boobs of my persuasion.

When I started dating my by-now wife (15 years next month!), I decided to not smoke around her very, very early in the relationship. (The fact that there would have been *no* relationship had I not is moot.) And I haven't since. I haven't smoked inside my own home for going on twenty years; I can't smoke in any of the shops or theatres I work for; on any form of transit I take; in any of the stores or restaurants we/I go to; and if I'm in a crowd or group of people outside, I step away from everyone before I light up. And I try to make sure I put my waste in an appropriate container.

The only person who has ever complained about my smoking to my face - except for my wife, who hates it and never lets me forget that part - is this woman who freaked out in a park one time when a child suddenly came running up near me while I was smoking. He never got anywhere really close, and he was upwind of me, but she started screaming about how I was trying to kill an innocent child (not, I think, hers, btw) and all sorts of stuff. I had, of course, already put out the cigarette as soon as I saw the kid, but she was determined to trash me regardless. It's certainly a good thing I was merely being malicious rather than arrogantly knuckling under a physical and psychological addiction again. Whew!

Which goes to show ya that anti-smoking zealots - despite any self-defined 'moral superiority' - can be just as inconsiderate as morons who light up in non-smoking areas.

If, in spite of my precautions, my smoke is bothering you, ask me politely to stop or move away, and I'll politely do so. Being considerate works both directions.