h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Now, lets just cover this, I'm an occasional, social smoker (once or twice a month at most I'll buy a pack and then share most of them out). When the ban comes in I'll probably smoke so little it'll barely count, but I enjoy it when I do it, which is why I bother, before you ask.

Now, my best friend just had a baby. I've spent a lot of time at the hospital as there were complications. She was a smoker, gave up cold the moment she found out she was pregnant. Now, I would not dream of smoking during the day if I know I'm going to be visiting her or the baby or, to be honest, going on a maternity ward and into the special care baby unit at all. I would feel unclean and uncomfortable.

What shocked me was the number of mums and very pregnant women who were dragging themselves outside to have a cigarette. By the door. By the sign that states that the hospital SITE is a non-smoking area. Not only are these women, in my opinion, being weak and selfish towards their children (if EVER there was a reason to give up surely that's it??) but they were also selfishly inflicting it upon all the visitors and other pregnant women trying to get into the wards. I understand it could be a bad idea to give up nicotene when already pregnant, but there are other ways to manage the addiction.

I apologise, I'm being extremely judgemental I know and I dont like it but I cannot understand feeling ok holding a baby close against clothes and skin and breath reeking of smoke, coated in that thin film which eventually permeates everything in a smoker's home and wardrobe... It actually really upset me that people dont hold the miracle of new life in high enough regard to overcome a harmful and unpleasant addiction to safeguard it's health and well-being. For Life people!

For my tuppence worth, ban smoking in;

Colleges, schools, universities, anywhere you have a large number of people in a smallish area, whether indoor or out. And police it. When you are concentrating mixed groups of people together, those who wish to be anti-social will need to curb their enthusiasm for *gasp* maybe half a day at a time! (look, it goes for people wishing to play extremely loud or disruptive music and so on, IMO smoking is something you can feel free to do in the privacy of your own home/car/when away from others in the park etc but you should ALWAYS act with the awareness and understanding that your behaviour is not acceptable for all and may need to be postponed or moved sometimes)

Pubs, clubs etc (If people want to open, charge for membership of and run smoking clubs, I have no issue, just dont vent it, unfiltered, into the street!)

ANYWHERE that involves the 'public' or employees walking through a huddle of smoke and smokers to get to their place of employment or to enter a site. Maybe large employers should be required to provide a smoking garden... open and colourful - away from those who dont wish to come into contact with it. No reason why it should be a little yellowed box in a dark corner, that's degrading!

It upsets me when I see people ruled, owned and controlled by any habit, be it washing their hands or smoking... If it's in control of you there's a problem! I like chocolate too, and I think about it sometimes once too often... Doesnt mean I HAVE to have a chocolate button every three hours or I'll just Die! Oh, I'm GASPING!

I know people who wont go to the theatre. Why? 'Oh, I cant smoke in there and I'm not sitting without a fag for x hours!' Anyone else think that's a shame? That a person will limit themselves for their addiction?

I agree genarally - but there is another way to look at it. My grandmother never drove at more then 25mph. She never had an accident but probably killed many people who - out of sheer frustration -overtook her on blind corners on narrow Devon lanes.

Although I have views on the specifics, I dont understand what you're trying to say with that analogy, sorry... Try another one!

OK. The 'banners' can sometimes cause more harm than they do good. Logically it is absurd. I agree entirely with a ban on smoking in places like hospitals. There is an entire ban on smoking inside any government office in Muscat - try an find anyone - they are out in the car park having a fag!! The banners have introduced an extraordinary inefficiency.
Back to granny's driving. She did nothing wrong - drove well within the law - but by doing so drove everyone else to suicidal mania.
In my office in Doha, there was a notice behind my desk "Smoking Mandatory". It limited the visitors!

My issue with driving slower than necessary: You are causing an obstruction therefore while you are being 'legal' you are not being 'safe'... And while it's up to each driver to behave responsibly and act according to the rules we have that make our roads less chaotic and safer than driving through New Delhi in rush hour, anybody who is causing an obstruction is as bad a driver, IMO, as someone who has no regard for safe speed limits and likes to randomly turn without indicating and switch lanes for the fun with no warning


Thing, is, like I said, if you are a smoker ad you get pregnant, and you're in hospital, I think the hospital should have the right to say, give up smoking, here's patches (I know hositals provide patches, my ex's dad was given them coming up to an operation) cos you will not be allowed to smoke on site. It's not about my personal health, it's their children I worry about... If having a baby, giving life, creating such a miracle cannot induce you to give up, that should really make you stop and think about your self control etc... I liken it to people who overfeed their pets cos they have no self control... It's ignorant cruelty that takes just a touch of willpower to overcome... lol

I agree - I smoke, but never when there are small babies are around. Also I respect people's work places, cars and houses and wouldn't dream of smoking in them. However, I object to non-smokers saying I can't smoke in a pub. If they don't like it - go to a non-smokers' pub. I don't like heavy metal rock concerts and there is proof that they damage your hearing. I don't insist that they are banned - I just avoid them.

Well, soon enough that wont be an issue... There'll be no smoking in pubs down here too.. I do hope they dont let everyone just huddle round the door smoking though (I'm a social smoker, so I'll be outside having one or two myself I dont doubt)... Seeing a crowd of people around a doorway into a pub is off-putting whether they are smoking or not... And I hate seeing smoke-related litter lying around, it disgusts me as it smacks of lack of respect, self and general... And standing by the door doesnt keep you warmer!

When I worked in Muscat, trying to find anyone in the municipality (or any government offices), was impossible as they were all outside, smoking in the car park. It is getting to be the same here, in Morocco.

In which case, unfortunately, one's 'freedom' must be curbed. I wouldnt be allowed down the pub every couple of hours for a pint (or to the canteen for a cuppa... ) While someone is paying your wages you should be vailable a mojority of the time, that's a managment issue which is brought about, i suspect, through lack of encouragement from the government. I know that here employers would be terrified of being sued and getting no back up, but if an employee was off dfown the betting shop ever couple of hours for ten or fifteen minutes (by the time they've walked there and back and achieved the prupose of the visit) they would get the sack!

I seems to me that governments in general - but the British one in paricular - seem to regard their sole purpose as curbing people's freedom. Virtually all of the things I did as a child - in the 1950s - would now attract a prison sentence - if not for me, for my school teachers. In the wilds of Devon, we understood and protected nature - we were part of it. Now the Dartmoor farmers have to have a fire engine and four local authority officials 'standing by' if they want to go swaling (burn off the dead bracken and gorse). As a result the moor is choking to death. You can't walk on half of the moor and let your lurcher chase a rabbit - you will be renditioned to Guantanamo. The 'nanny state' has got beyond a joke.

Perhaps but I think that's a slightly different topic to that of whether your employer has the right to insist that you dont allow your habits to impact on your job in such a way that others cannot get on with theirs, and I believe the government should abck them up with that... Not saying you cant have breaks (i.e. you're supposed to have a break from the computer screen ever hour or two) but disappearing for fifteen minutes because you cant control yourself enough to wait till lunchtime... If I did that (I dont smoke at work) but didn't have a fag in my hand, I'd be reprimanded, but it seems that having a fag makes you exempt from having to be available...

Yes - as usual, I agree but:

During my rather traumatic - and desperately impoverished - years as an architectural student, I worked during the holidays (and they years when they threw me out) on building sites, eventually ending up as a ‘hod-carrier’ where you can earn quite a bit if you are fit. I worked with a middle-aged, mad, alcoholic Irishman, Between us, we looked after eight bricklayers. Paddy was incredible – always there first in the morning and everything set out for the day’s work. He always erected the scaffolding so that he never walked uo to the lifet where the bricklayers were working, he popped the material up from the lift below. He taught me everything I have ever needed to know about ‘time-&-motion’.
He worked furiously but at 10:30 (opening time) he would say to me “Keep an eye onem Jimmy, dar orlroight fer brick but yer may need to givem sum muck”. With that he would disappear off to the nearest pub for an hour but return and get everything straight again before lunch. Then back to the pub for a legal hours drinking. In those days the pubs closed at 2:30 so he had a three hour stint at work, getting everything ready for the next day and the off like a shot on the dot of 5:30, whence he stayed until throwing out time.
Nobody complained – his work was impeccable but his problem was that he was ‘subbed’ for three months in advance of his wages. The boss of the bricklaying gang had him by the short and curlies. However, I learned a vast amount, not just about building (from the practical point of view), but about work ethics and management. Far more than I ever learned at university.

True, but if everyone followed his example, no work would be getting done. the context is removed and it becomes chaos.

However, I was working on your example of everybody being down in the car park smoking instead of available to do their jobs... Which is NOT a case of someone managing their time and work efficiently, is it? It's saying to their employer and colleagues that their wish to go and fulfil a personal desire is more important than doing their job. Have you ever tried to interrupt someone having a fag break? It's like you've phoned them in the night and asked them to come to work on a sunday! I'm saying the attitude is wrong, personal desire fulfilment is not a right in that sense at work... I dont, however, have issues with someone who is doing their job well and effectively taking time out for ANY reason, if it doesn't impact others doing their job. If your layers had run out of bricks or cement, there would have been a problem, right?

You are right - my example was only to try and say that mad and drunk as he was, Paddy's first priority was towards those he worked with (and paid him) - he was just an odd example. The problem, these days is that work ethics are falling. "I am ENTITLED to fourteen says sick leave a year". Employers are little better and so the standoff begins - each grabs what they can from the other and there is little or no mutual loyalty.
Go to
http://james1.spaces.live.com/
There is part of what I have written about management.

heh, I cant from here, no outside web access If I can get online at home I'll certainly have a read...

I dont understand how people can hope to move forward when the one is set against the other... If we all were fundamentally moving towards the same goal: fulfilled workforce and their families with efficiency and respect for the work they are trying to do, if there was respect and understanding both ways up and down the ladder, we'd all be better off, but it only takes one or two to be greedy or untrustworthy (or untrusting) and the balance tips and people get defensive. Internal politics annoy me, as does the fact that people then try to LEGISLATE to bring the opposing forces back together and no legislation can possibly be flexible enough to allow for and please everyone.

Isn't it the disparity between the obscene amounts that the big business fat cats pay themselves and what they people who do the work get. I have only once ever worked for a really large multinational and found the gross corruption impossible to live with. I left, set up my own business and my local (Yemeni) partner 'moved' to GM to Dubai. One of the things we had to do was fid four brief cases to the underside of the dining room table. Inside was $10m in cash. The chap had been on a pretty handsom salary as it was - this was just what he stole from the petty cash. How does a company expect workers to respect management, when they behave like that.

When you get into that kind of money flying around, they dont expect respect. They expect results and they think that people should just do what they are told to do. People stop being people and become lesser beings, just parts of the machine that allows them to become utterly inhuman capitalist scumbags (I support capitalism to a point, but not when economics are put before humanity)... *ahem*... money is an inevitabiliy I think, if we 'magicked' away money, we'd create currency again, trade and barter would develop again into symbolised forms of wealth again over time... So why fight it? It's when wealth comes before welfare that I dont like it

Don't I know it. In 2000, I lived for seven months in a rural Moroccan shantytown on less than $1-a-day. We ate well and lived remarkably well but the overwhelming thing is that everyone helped everyone and there was virtually no talk about money. We built our own house for precisely nothing - other than lot of hard work and everyone helped, even thought they thought I was slightly crazy. In many ways life was better than living in the relative civilisation of Casa, where money becomes the primary concern of life.

Money should only ever be a tool, never a reason!

My (Moroccan) wife says "Money come - money goes". If she ever has any she just gives it away and never complains of a lack of it. Odd - but nice.