h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I think we need to try and put the years of neglect behind us.

And reposting :

"bigeyes and give em a push? winkeye"

Well that server has got to be heavy. smiley - tongueout In all seriousness guys I'm worried... I mean I don't know the eds, but I know what that industry is like, and we've got some people for the first time in a long time trying to make the site better, under I would imagine rediculous pressures from above. I mean would you rather come in to work to a nice, happy supportive community or one that tries to sabotage you at every turn? smiley - sadface

as I say here: F19663853?thread=8006204&post=105522860#p105522860

we've had a few notes of encouragement from the PTB, including mentions of specific things they're trying to fix, but, for me, the elephant in the room is this the self-refreshing conversation list with functioning links to first unread posts.

No body in power has given us any hint of what's going on with this extremely important functionality of the old site, so far missing from the new site.


Even just a yay or nay would be nice.

All comments seem to have disappeared from (been hidden?) the 'H2G2 Refresh: design and technical challenges' blog: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2011/01/h2g2_refresh_design_and_techni.html




Unless I'm doing something wrong.

never mind. They're back.

I had that happen yesterday too anhaga.

Do you know if the self-refreshing conversation list with functioning links to first unread posts thingy was brought up in the beta testing?

>>
If the deficiencies are bugs, and temporarily missing functionality, then H2G2 could yet be OK once they're fixed.
If they're supposed to be features, and the missing functionality is permanent, then the new H2G2 is clearly a massive backward step, and might even be a fatal development in a time of waning Community patience.
<<

Excellent summary Pin.

>>
The most important missing piece of understanding for me (and I'd really appreciate the explanation of the knowledgeable on this) is why the BBC have undertaken change at a time when they clearly lack the resource to implement it. I can only assume that it's being done in pursuit of easier (meaning less resource-intensive) long-term maintainability.
<<

The impression I have is that the bbc has some kind of public service imperative to standardise its websites. That they've tried to do that with h2g2 without adequate funding is hardly surprising given they've neglected it for so long.

What I don't understand is why they don't use the h2g2 community to do the testing. We're free (relatively).

>>>>I'd also like to point out that whatever hootoo looks like, or how the software functions, the character of it is down to those contributing to it. I don't think that's likely to change!

Can we just second Teasswill's sentiment. Also wanted to apologise for the radio silence. We acknowledge that the new site isn't functioning quite how it should, but wanted to assure you that we're reading the feedback and doing everything we can to fix the problems. We should be in a position to start responding to individual feedback on the New H2G2 Feedback page on Monday (http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/feedback/four ) but we've also been able to post to this thread to address some of the concerns raised there: F77636?thread=8012744&skip=75&show=20

We'll try to do the same on this thread tomorrow. But, in the meantime, please, stay calm, don't panic and be assured that we're listening to you and value what you have to say.

Sam and Chris
The H2G2 Eds

Hi anhaga. Re: the self-refreshing conversation list.

Firstly, sorry not to reply sooner. A version of this should be functioning on the Conversation page of your Personal Space, but doesn't seem to be working on some browsers. Needless to say, it's on our list.

We've changed the format of this because BBC sites aren't allowed to have pop-ups any more as a general rule, so this was our way of incorporating those functions while adhering to the new guidelines. But it needs work as it clearly isn't functioning properly at the moment.

Cheers
Sam and Chris

Hi Eds,

Nice to hear we'll be getting that functionality! But can it still be a text-only page, so we're not loading graphics every time?

I'm on a mobile broadband connection with a rather low monthly limit. And I, er, have the "My Conversations" set to reload every 30 seconds

"We've changed the format of this because BBC sites aren't allowed to have pop-ups any more as a general rule, so this was our way of incorporating those functions while adhering to the new guidelines. But it needs work as it clearly isn't functioning properly at the moment. "


I find that very disappointing. The difference between having the popup and a list on your personal space is huge. I understand that not everyone even bothered to use the popup but I think if they had they would have really liked how it works. Specifically how that popup controls a separate tab/window makes so much difference. Going to a list, clicking a convo which closes that list, then having to back page to the list and then refresh it isn't nearly as efficient.

I'm assuming that we should expect to at least get the ability to go directly to any unread posts. If that's not the case, well, the functionality of conversations will be scuttled. They won't be live conversations to the extent they are now. Having to search through conversations to find where you left off is an extra step of separation from the community. One more step away.

I understand that this is all coming down from the top and I know you folks directly responsible for H2G2 are doing the best you can, but I don't have to like the direction this seems to be going. We don't want to be like the rest of the BBC websites. We feel that some of these changes are not improvements, that we're being downgraded to fit in.

I'll hold off final judgment for a few weeks, but I must say, I don't have high hopes. As attractive as the new design is, it does not seem like an improvement to me.

Thanks Sam and Chris.


If you mean that we will be able to open our conversation list in a separate window, and that that window will be self-refreshing, so that we can just sign on in the morning, right-click on 'my conversations' and 'open in new window' and then tuck that new window up into a corner where it will behave pretty much exactly as the old convo popup . . .


then there won't really be an issue, will there?



Except . . .


once we've got that little window tucked in the corner, if we want to look at a conversation, we'll have to right click on it, open in a new window, and resize the new window to read the conversation.



It strikes me that this is a place were popups are pretty much necessary (if I understand correctly, popups are to be avoided, they aren't disallowed).

I can't see how functionality is being kept without popups.

>>..reducing the service level to the minimum tolerable
to the customer. Is that you're game, Auntie? <<

That is the mantra of cost efficiency chanted by all the
surviving corporate bodies. Sadly, the business model is
antithetical to governments, religions and the Arts, which
includes all the modern media (currently intoxicated by the
spell of cyberspace and its distortions of numerical values).

Sports is one of the few non-traditional business enterprises
that seems to thrive on the corporate mania of cruel cost-
efficiencies and obscene squandering that reflect our much
misguided understanding of wealth and power.


~jwf~ for every cyberstick there must be a cybercarrot

I appreciate it that the Editors popped in on a Sunday evening to reassure us. Meanwhile, we still have the old site to go to.

" would you rather come in to work to a nice, happy supportive community or one that tries to sabotage you at every turn? " [Terran]

I worked for 37 years, and there were ups and downs. Sometimes happy and supportive, other times distrustful and unpleasant. My personal philosophy is based on constructive engagement. If you're dealing with people who need to change, you won't get very far if you shun them. Besides, there are not very many people who have *no* redeeming characteristics.

That's beautifully put paul.

Paul has a very poetic soul, kea

lil x

I think he might be my favourite hootooer that I don't know well enough.

I have to agree with you there

He's written some great stuff in the Limerick thread.