h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Does UK have any regulation about minority languages? Laws and such, I mean...

There is the

"European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages" (http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/EN/Treaties/Html/148.htm ) at European Union level, Irish Gaelic is covered in the "Anglo Irish Good Friday Belfast agreement" and Welsh is covered by the Welsh Language act - I'm not aware of any specific provision for Cornish or Manx.

Erm...

Please correct me, if I am wrong but it seems to me that there is some contradiction in those acts and the information I read about BBC on http://www.bbc.co.uk/info/bbc/acc_how.shtml and in policy practiced in h2g2.

I am not informed about British traditions but I know quite well how Human Rights Special Rapporteurs are chasing for this kind of cases here. Minority rights are so very important if it comes to eastern Europe and Asia but in UK they don't seem to be much issue.

Why would they allow different British languages when they won't even allow different DIALECTS?

In understand the reasons why the BBC has to outlaw languages othes than those spoken by their moderators. This is a decision the seem to *have* to make. On the other hand, I'm really saddened to see such a lack of courage and trust. I have been a frequent guest of the h2g2 party (now hosted by the BBC, who are thereby entitled to post the House Rules), and I have hardly ever experienced indecencies that could not be handled by the crowd. In my very personal opinion, the whole moderating issue has caused more spiritual disorder than anything else that happened during "my" time here. I finally gave in, as I came to the conclusion that it makes no sense to fight windmills (has anybody ever heared the story of Don Quichote and Sancho Panza?).

Anyhow, I definitely never liked the fact that some rathoer anonymous instance was up to decide which of my postings were suitable for other people's eyes. Many h2g2ers even seemed to think that "if you don't get moderated from time to time, you're getting old".

TC quoted from an email conversation that we had quite a while ago, when I was invoted to join the Germania Connection on h2g2. It is true that I still think it would be unfair to have conversations in languages other than English, as these would exclude all non German-, French-, Spanish-, Esperanto-, Swahili-, Xhosa-, Estonian-speaking Researchers from that very thread.

But (with a capital "B"): You cannot handle language issues without using other languages. You cannot debate cultural differences without referring to foreign languages. You cannot defend and honour your own cultural and ethnic identity without holding up you mother tongue like a flag blowing in the wind from time to time.

In my personal opinion it should be my personal decision what language I use in my posts. If I feel it's appropriate to use German, I'd like to have the chance to do that. If it's Italian (the hands down finest language for romantic poetry in my opinion), I'd like to use Italian parts in my postings. If I want to chat with people from all over the world (which was the case in at least 99% of all of my postings), I used English anyhow. But in every single case it was my decision to use the English language, even when I talked to TC or Bossel.

As soon as there is no longer a chance to decide for myself, it's time for the final decision to go.

Jeremy

Well it was worth a try!

If everyone who's got their virtual knickers in a twist over this rule were to channel their energy into protesting about something that really, cosmically speaking, *mattered*, we could wipe out poverty or famine or child abuse at a stroke.

Mille fois pardon! A thousand pardons!

*struggling to disentangle boxers while racking brains for something that 'cosmically-speaking' matters*

OK I get the point. But I can't control what annoys me. It does seem silly to get het up about this kind of constriction of freedom when there are others whose freedom is far more drastically restricted. And I know many people who weren't allowed to speak their own language for a couple of generations for political reasons, so, in perspective, it's a storm in a teacup.

I'm still though. After all, 18 months ago, it was no problem at all - you could say what you wanted, in whatever language suited you and the others in your conversation.

18 months ago, h2g2 was about to go bust, so if it wasn't for the BBC and its restrictions, you wouldn't be able to have any h2g2 conversations with anyone in any language...

EV - the two items:

Existing vs not existing (or, if you will, pre-BBC / BBC era)
- and -
English only vs different languages

imo are not universally given as two things that are necessarily intertwined (unless you live by corporate rules as defined in legal offices). The real question seems to be whether you must have pro-active moderation or if you can bring yourself to put in place reative moderation - which is what I, and many with me it seems,hope for...

As someone said further up, this is a question of trust involved - and it seems that noone in the higher realms thinks that the h2g2 researchers can be trusted to yike offensive postings to get them dealt with and out of the way...

Sad I still am.

might I point out to any italics present that those last two posts were not in english. When do you expect to start enforcing this new policy? Or does it only take effect if someone presses the yikes button?

I was referring to posts 19 and 20 . anyway the question stands does someone need to yikes a foreign language entry before it is hidden?

Yes, we are all s

Just to prove it (and to check out what the announcement didn't bother to make clear)...


Here's a link to the head of evil: http://www.bundesregierung.de/
There are German , French and Spanish versions available, and none of you can proof they are identical to the English version.

So, Mods, do your worst!

Besides, you would be doing me a little favour. I'd like to see a little 'unsuitable link removed'

I don't claim to be an expert in this by any means. I've never used a foreign language on H2G2 although I have just spent two years learning Italian ( badly ). However it strikes me that whoever came up with this ridiculous rule at the BBC must either be; a)tired of their job and hoping that something this stupid will get them fired, b) ignorant of European law on protection of language rights by EC citizens, or C) as the great Douglas Adams once said "an ignorant monkey who doesn't know any better".
I mean to say, good grief, don't these people check with their lawyers before making a statement that is quite clearly in breach of the law? It probably conflicts with most of The European Charter For Regional Minority Languages article 7,most of article 11, and is certainly in breach of article 13, section 1 a,b,c & d. There is a very simple way to tell whether a posting breaches the rules - employ someone who can speak the language!!!

As my name means something in Indonesian that I cannot understand, I moderate myself and become again a nameless number

Isaac Asimove once wrote a novel around the quotation:
"Against stupidity even the Gods cannot prevail"

Yesssss!

There's a similar quote from Albert Onestone (Mods: that's translated from the G****n 'Einstein'):

It's something like: There are only two things that are really infinite in size: the Universe and human stupidity. However, I'm not all sure about the Universe.

Together with the latest (four weeks ago) change (or "clarification" ) in the House Rules, this new concept paints a bleak picture. The House Rules were changed to say:

"Links to websites we consider unsuitable will be removed, (...) Unsuitable sites would include (...) sites which are in languages other than English, (...)."

This rule is currently not enforced strictly:

"What about links to sites or pages that contain some non-English languages, but also contain some English language? This might include EU pages, or the personal pages of a bilingual person, for example."

"As always, we'll take each case on its own merits.
But any site with an English version of the non-English pages would be ok."
(F75100?thread=184172&skip=60&show=20)

This by the way applies to links in entries, too.
So as a consequence we're not allowed to post links to non-English sites nor are we allowed to post in foreign tongue.
Where is this headed?





Peta #104 "... and emailing translations back and forth just wasn't workable. The previous conversations explained this fully. "

Nothing like this was announced or even hinted at on the TransVol page, the relevant Soapbox thread or the recent Post article about the TransVol scheme.




The only sensible way out of this and a lotta other friction issues is re-active moderation. I have not researched court rules in the UK on this issue in depth, but from what I gather from German, UK and US cases. I believe that content providers and operators of Bulletin Bord Systems etc are only liable if they do not remove offensive content as soon as they learn about it. They are not obliged to pro-actively read everything. So it seems to me that the BBC is going to a greater length then necessary with moderation.

And yes, I understand what Blues Shark meant when he said that "It will only take one link to slip through that is unsuitable and the tabloids will have a field day with it."

Pity that the BBC is under so much pressure from the tabloids...

Anyway, I accept and can live with this new rule but it does not make me happy.

Ah... one small little matter... is that "no-posting-of-non-English"-rule part of the House Rules and will breaking that rule (repeatedly) get me an official warning and/or a week/lifetime ban?
Or is it just "BBC Editorial Policy" as stated in the Announcement?

Just curious, y'know...

<>
Ah, now I know why!
21 June 2002, just after 10 am (GMT): The English soccer team is kicked out of the world cup by Brazil (1:2).

21 June 2002, just after the Towers begins their work (10:30+ am GMT): Everything non-English is banned from h2g2.


C'mon! You just want to show us who's the boss!
</>