h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Dear Goen,
you should promote democracy, that is for sure. But I know for sure that most Americans do not really understand the situation in the Middle East for example, they do not know a thing about the politics and the conflicts of the region. And whether their government is really serving justice and democracy there!
I hope that you know that the American policy in the Middle East have been always to support Israel 100% regardless of how outrageous the Israeli government is!!....now is that part of spreading democracy ??
And about the Afghans in their fight against the USSR, which really helped bring the most humiliating defeat to that superpower, its not that they should be happy because they were liberated, they way they see it, they have liberated themselves coz they have done all the fighting and without any money from the US government.

I hope you don't take this as an attack on America, I really appreciate lots of the values in America, and as you said it is the real melting pot in the world, and you should be proud of that. But I say what I say because I truly hope that the US takes more unbiased stands on Issues and conflicts in the world, and not have double standards.




Peace and Justice for ALL

> "A British kid who said his mother told him we bathe too much"

Excessive bathing wastes water, which is ecologically unfriendly. As everyone should know, showering uses about a third the water of a bath, so it's much much better for the environment. The USA is the largest polluter in the world on a per capita basis - So it wouldn't surprise me if americans, *on average*, bathe too much. And, indeed, use too much water.

"America is all nations" ??? Whatever

Liberation of Afghanistan - well...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1162000/1162108.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1549000/1549285.stm

You managed to get the soviets to leave, and replace them by the Taleban. Another stunning victory for the forces of democracy...

this is not an attack on anyboddy or anything so please dont take it as such. but I am geting anoyed by all of this sort of thing.
I mean come on have you actully gon round and asked evry one in the world whether they love America?
have you asked evry Amrican whether they love the world?
obvasly not becase it would take you years. yes some people dont like the way america comes over to be this sort of "big brother to the world" they where your words, dis the world ask for a big brother?
are all other nations so helpless that they need america to tell them right from wrong?
and exemple from my Girl friend (who is an israile where I am now living) ws that the news reports from CNN about the gulf war came over as look at the poor little isralie people so we will come in and help them out of danger becase they are useless.
now if we look at facts israil has never lost a war, of corse it is for the simple fact that the first war it looses will be the last one it fights but they still havent lost one. America has take veatnam for instance, you arnt going to tell me taht was a victory. ok so they helped, and yes it proberbly was a preachated, but the way it was reported comes over (at least to me) as arrogant so that is why some people dislike america.

on the other hand allot of people really dont give a s**t, I mean they arnt happy about what happen but they neather love or hate ameraca its just there

>>>news reports from CNN about the gulf war came over as look at the poor little isralie people so we will come in and help them out of danger becase they are useless.<<<

might have something to do with the large Zionist groups in America.

>>now if we look at facts israil has never lost a war, of corse it is for the simple fact that the first war it looses will be the last one it fights but they still havent lost one<<<

all american backed though? I was also under the impression that part of the "aid" Israel receives from america is arms/weaponry.

>>>America has take veatnam for instance, you arnt going to tell me taht was a victory. ok so they helped, and yes it proberbly was a preachated, but the way it was reported comes over (at least to me) as arrogant<<<

I don't feel the way that is reported is arrogant. I feel much of that is very left-wing, devoted to pointing out all the things that America (and allies ) did wrong, and also in rememberance of how many people they lost (50,000?)

Just a couple of thoughts.

First Bambi (post 18) - you are completely right about the cultural differences between Americans and Europeans. I am a Brit, I have just spent 12 months working in Hamburg and Sweden, and in Sweden I was with a team which included Americans, Brits, Danes, an Iranian, Norwegians, a Russian, a Singaporean, and obviously some Swedes.

Europeans do find Americans Brash, Pushy and Overwhelming. Amercicans think they are being friendly, and don't see the silent 'oh my god' signals coming of the Europeans.

Secondly Bambi - I was careful to say 'all WHITE Americans are there because their ancestors decided that the US was better than the place where they were born' (post 7). But you took my post in the spirit it was intended.

Goens001, in post 13 you say "We don't just go over seas and fight because we like to fight (unlike terrorists)." I have a couple of things to say to this.

Firstly - I have heard statistics recently on the number of Americans with passports, these range from 7% to 15% and I am going to try to check out what the real numbers are, and how that compares with other nations. But I am not convinced you can say "we" about a minority that small.

Secondly - you assume that terrorists like to fight. Well I don't know any terrorists personally, but my guess is that they want to be heard, and have come to the conclusion that violence is the only way they will be heard.

Thirdly - may I suggest that you stop generalising QUITE so much. If you like people as much as you do, you will probabably have notices that we are species of individuals.

All - it seems to me that American News media focus almost entirely on what happens within the US. And with so few Americans travelling, that there is a deep well of ignorance about the rest of the world. Goens001, you may be travelled, cultured, intelligent, caring, and loving. But your fellow Americans are kept in woeful ignorance of the world around them.

*Still irritated by what I read here, I am afraid. And saying it, because I am an individual, and prepared to step outside my cultural stereotype*

a Brit called Ben

"Secondly - you assume that terrorists like to fight. Well I don't know any terrorists personally, but my guess is that they want to be heard, and have come to the conclusion that violence is the only way they will be heard."

terrorists are trained individuals. The ones under bin laden were trained in part by americans during the afghan war. they have since gone to other countries to fight in other battles. these are unskilled workers for the most part. they have learned to operate different kinds of missle launchers and guns, and they have plenty of materiel to use, (thanks to the US). this is why i say they "like to fight." they learned how, and now it's all they are trained for. at least this is what the BBC has said in a two hour uninterrupted broadcast in cahoots with the discovery channel.

over the course of this conversation, i've realized something. some of the people in this conversation have no idea whatsoever about what they are talking about. you need FACTS to support your statements. you also try to turn your opinions into facts. maybe instead of going off on something you don't know about in a public forum, you should go to the library and do some reading. peace out, fools.

Hear, hear! Goens001!

Hey Ben....careful, there...you're lettin' emotion overide facts!

Terrorists are trained to fight.....I don't know any personally, myself....but most people like to do what they are trained to do.

Yes, The US media tends to spend an inordinate amount of time discussing whats' going on in the US...wonder why? I guess its' cause its' the US media....thats' what they are paid for!(Oh...and its' NOT America....the rest of the continent gets "torked" when you use that term in reference to the US)

Myself, I've never been outside of the US.....but ya' know what....I've got books, magazines, documentaries, overseas friends....geee...I guess I don't need to travel afterall. I think I can get a fair perspective from here, as long as I keep my head out of the sand.

The idea is to look at more than one view of the world. Listen to more than one opinion. ....then form your own. It doesn't matter if its' right or wrong, as long as it is YOURS!

I'm afraid we have a few too many folks with identical opinions around here....that worries me.

NM

Re: Arrogance

I've come across quite a bit of hubris and arrogance at this site. Once in a while, it even comes from an American.

Re: Brash, Pushy and Overwhelming

Curiously enough, that was this Americans' impression of Australians in general. I found it to be refreshing, however, and I had a great time there. But if Aussies are overwhelming by comparison to Americans, why is nobody bitching about them?

Re: News Coverage

News coverage here is corporate based, unlike some countries, where it is funded by the government. Because of this, much of our news media is driven by ratings, and let's face it... Albanian refugees in Italy just isn't as gripping a story as the local Congressman whose aide has mysteriously vanished. Those who wish, however, can find quality world reporting easily enough... CNN, BBC World (on PBS), and World News Tonight being a few examples.

As for foreign interest in the US, an expert on the muslim world on CNN (a muslim himself) gave an analysis of the culture and reasons why their is friction between ours and theirs. On the top of his list was the fact that Americans are a bit insular (we're taught as children to "Mind your own damned business!"), whereas the muslim world absolutely obsesses over us. I suspect they watch us with that same sort of sick fascination that makes trailer trash wives watch the Jerry Springer show. I think that this phenomenon is not limited to the muslim world.

And as an illustrative anecdote, while flying a military flight to Bahrain, the plane landed in Catania, Sicily for refueling. We were packed in a large lobby in the international section of the airport, which is seperated from the main. There we were, young American men and women, dressed in our civillian clothes, sitting around, waiting, not doing much of anything. Between us and the rest of the airport was a long wall, perhaps 100 feet long, with windows on the upper half. Lined up all the way along that wall, staring blankly into our lobby, were the local Italians. It was very annoying. They would just stand and stare, and didn't seem to be talking to each other much at all. One thing that struck me was that they seemed to be unversally wearing black.

We didn't stare back. That would be brash, pushy, and possibly overwhelming.

Re: "American"

A legacy of political correctness taken too far. If people from South America find the term offensive, there is no need. They can simply call themselves "South Americans," or "Chileans," "Peruvians," "Bolivians," etc. There is no need to apply one word to describe the myriad different cultures that exist in the Western hemisphere with one blanket term. One does not say "Asian" and immediately think of Pakistanis, or Eastern Russians, does one? No, we typically mean the denizens of Southeast Asia, who share certain cultural and racial traits, in varying degrees. So let it be with "America." Besides, our country is called the United States of America. What else should we use? Unitarians?? Staters???

>>>Curiously enough, that was this Americans' impression of Australians in general. I found it to be refreshing, however, and I had a great time there. But if Aussies are overwhelming by comparison to Americans, why is nobody bitching about them?<<<

not nearly as many of us. Or as many that can afford to go overseas? (Aussie dollar back under 50 cents)

but seriously, *every* country is bitched about. Every single one. It just happens that America is the topic of the day.

Hi!

You know, neighbors are seldom loved. Being as big and mighty, USA is effectively everybody's neighbor on this small planet. Hence, the peculiar attitude.

All great nations have learned to live with it somehow. Now it's your turn.

Best regards.

Alexander

US Soldiers are trained to kill. Doesn't mean they enjoy killing. (though some do). The same applies to terrorists AKA guerrillas AKA freedom fighters. Including both the 'good guys' and the 'bad guys'...

Hi!

When you feel that pumping pride rushing in next time, try to think whether you were not *made* feeling it, and if so, why, and how, and what for. This should help to alleviate the symptoms, and perhaps even cure you if you practise it regularly.

Best regards.

Alexander

In posting 26 I said: "Secondly - you assume that terrorists like to fight. Well I don't know any terrorists personally, but my guess is that they want to be heard, and have come to the conclusion that violence is the only way they will be heard."

Let me give you my thinking behind this.

It was based on my experience of European terrorists - both the Loyalists and the Republicans in the UK, and ETA in Spain.

The Republicans and ETA basically want borders to be redrawn, the Loyalists want them to stay where they are and to retailiate against actions by the Republicans.

There are political movemements espousing these aims. But the terrorists (freedom-fighters, activists, whatever) feel that the political movements are ignored at best and hamstrung or silenced at worst. (You should know that at one point in the 80s this was literally true - Republican Policitians were not allowed to speak on British Television, although their words could be spoken by an actor.)

As a result they decided that the only way to get 'the oxygen of publicity' as Margaret Thatcher put it, was to buy headlines with blood. Cause... ...effect.

It works.

It worked then, and it worked on the 11th September.

Fairly Strange - I think you can see from what I have just said that I was not "lettin' emotion overide facts!" Just expressing a personal opinion based on living peacefully and happily in a terrorised country for 33 years.

So that's it. An opinion. For what it is worth. Sorry it threatened anyone's world-view so much.

Also Fairly Strange - I have been known to recant openly on extremely publicly stated opinions here on this website in the past, and if the remark "The idea is to look at more than one view of the world. Listen to more than one opinion. ....then form your own" is addressed to me - I will simply say - Am there - Doing that already.

*still finding the tone on this thread a little shrill...*

a human being called Ben

I wasn't going to say anything in this thread. And what I am about to say has absolutely nothing to do with the original topic. Just so you know.

I agree with Lucinda's statement that not all that are trained to fight and kill enjoys it.
There is an old East-Asian philosophy that states that no one abhors the war as much as the warrior, and the goal every warrior must reach for is to not have to fight at all.

I can't say that I know any terroists, or at least none of my friends admits to being terrorists, but I would say that terrorist attacks are done to provoke reactions, and not because the terrorists 'likes it'.

And if I may return to the original topic of the thread, well... I guess all I had to say about it has been expressed in one way or another already, so there's no point in repeating it.

the BBC is much more objective than the 'corporate' broadcasting stations operating in the States, they all say the same thing covering the same topics, even CNN, which has done a great deal of emotion stirring in these trageic events, believe me I was there



Peace and Justice for ALL

First of all everybody loves his or her country. It is not an achievement to love your country. It is just shows you the way back home. Even, the starving African men and women we see on television cracking the earth for plant roots to feed upon love their land. It would be amazing to see an American that does not love his country.

I live in a country that in the past has been under some sort of occupation for 1500 hundred years. That is about 4 times the length of history of America. Still I love my country. The rest of the world is OK. I do not love them madly or anything, yet they are there and have as much right to be there, as I have to be here.

The arrogance in American does not come from prosperity or achievement. It is a historical thing. Actully history in reverse. They are proud of their future. America has not been occupied by any foreign country in its history. I do not know of any other nation with that record. Maybe only Japan. The japanese still exhibit traits of this kind of arrogance. Actually arrogance in reverse. The remnants of pre-world war II Japanese view on the world, before their defeat.

America is leaving just about any important international treaty there is. It is escelating the arms race into unchartered territories. This in my opinion is the result of the notion of the fortress of ideology which is revitalized by America. Russia was the fortress of socialism. All the socialists around the world were obliged and forced to bleed and pay with their lives to defend that fortress. Of course that did not work. Now America claims to be the fortress of capitalism and democracy and freedom. It will not work either. It is a sad irony, that the tragedy in New York has caused the American government to acknowledge that it needs the world. Not as subordinates but as equals. They did not before. Let us just hope that it does not need reminders like the tragedies of September 11th to remember it again.

By the way, regarding technological achievement, do not forget that Russia has single handedly matched all the achievements of the western world in every major scientific field. It is very intersting to watch the laugh in their eyes. It is the laugh of a student at an absent minded teacher. It says, fortress, huh?

America does not love the world more than the world loves America. America has only interests. The problem is that it is fooled into "interest"s that are really not hers, but others.

I think the problem with the veterans of the Soviet-Afghani War is that they are skilled workers. They're skilled fighters.

I'm not sure how important it is that around 10% of Americans have passports. We have a huge and diverse country. There's plenty to see here. We just don't need to show a passport, everytime we drive in one direction for 6 hours. Also, we can travel to two other large nations, Mexico and Canada without a passport. I've traveled thousands and thousands of miles on vacations, yet I've never had a passport.

Many US citizens have traveled abroad without passports in the military. I've seen the pyramids in Egypt, some of the Seoul Olympics, and ancient forts in Panama.

Unfortunatly, fewer and fewer of our youth are serving this nation, and they lose out on the travel, as well as many of the other opppertunties for growth that the military offers.

"US Soldiers are trained to kill. Doesn't mean they enjoy killing. (though some do). The same applies to terrorists AKA guerrillas AKA freedom fighters. Including both the 'good guys' and the 'bad guys'..."

terrorists don't always care what cause they are fighting for. they go over to other coutries and fight in wars they have nothing to do with just for money. american soldiers fight soley to defend american and its interests. big difference.

Are you sure about that? It was my impression that most terrorists stuck with their cause. Some of the veterans of the war in Afghanistan went from there to fight in some other muslim revolutions, but I don't think that's quite the same as being psycopathic killer who drifts from cause to cause.

Of course, I can't say I'd classify them as terrorists if they're fighting revolutions anyway.

It still would have been nice if President Bush I had let us keep the $1000 each that Saudi Arrabia offered us.