A Conversation for Talking Point: 11 September, 2001

Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 841

FairlyStrange

Some cultures are not advanced enough to rule themselves.

NM


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 842

FairlyStrange

One more quick thought.....isn't European Feudalism also referred to as "The Dark Ages"?

NM


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 843

Martin Harper

Yeah, but "Dark Ages" because we know very little about it, not because it was terribly unjust...


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 844

Martin Harper

Not advanced enough to rule themselves democratically. I'm certainly not advocating a new era of colonialism, which is what is normally meant by that kind of statement... smiley - sadface


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 845

FairlyStrange

We know little about the "Dark Ages" simply because the people were not educated enough to write their own history...and their rulers were not willing to share in their ability to do so.

Sad part is, most of the rulers shared that same illiteracy.

Prior to that time, and following it, history has been well documented. But then, the people of that era had no choice in who ruled them.



Trust me...I doubt that we in the US have any desire to delve into Europes' history of failed foriegn policy. Nor have I ...I was only stating a fact.

NM


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 846

Uber Phreak

Seems to me, people were better off before and after the fuedalism stage, not during.


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 847

Ste

"I doubt that we in the US have any desire to delve into Europes' history of failed foriegn policy"

So then that would be the failed foriegn policy that spawned the USA, amongst other countries. See what you mean.


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 848

GTBacchus

<>

Ooh! I heard that one too, over the World Service! Never heard Mr. Cook before! Isn't he good?


So jus' let me get this straight here - you fur'ners call all mer'kins "yanks"? Even us God-fearin' Texans? Ain't y'all heard? - A yankee's a northerner! Wait til Gen'ral Lee hears about this!


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 849

GTBacchus

Uber Phreak wrote: <>

Please elaborate. How do we react if Bin Laden's action was a crime? How do we react if it was an act of war? What was it, in your opinion?

Also, in your opinion (or anyone else's), what has the Taliban done, and how should we react to them?


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 850

Peet (the Pedantic Punctuation Policeman, Muse of Lateral Programming Ideas, Eggcups-Spurtle-and-Spoonswinner, BBC Cheese Namer & Zaphodista)

"...how should we react to them?"

Please elaborate. Who are "we"? smiley - smiley


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 851

GTBacchus

It's a fair cop.

(a) how should the US react?

(b) how should the rest of the world react?

I fell into my habitual mode of speech as a US citizen. Oops.


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 852

Chris M

Well if there are only 2 points of view, the US and the "rest of the world"...

Strike two


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 853

Chris M

smiley - smiley

If the Taliban is guilty of anything so far, it looks like being either too inept, or too apologetic of anti-west factions to do anything but siphon off as much as they can within the borders of their jurisdiction and let them get on with it.

I heard that McDonalds gave protection money to the IRA. Is that an Urban Myth? If not, how should we react to them?


Removed

Post 854

GTBacchus

This post has been removed.


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 855

Peet (the Pedantic Punctuation Policeman, Muse of Lateral Programming Ideas, Eggcups-Spurtle-and-Spoonswinner, BBC Cheese Namer & Zaphodista)

How would the US react if we (the UK) sent highly targeted "smart bombs" through the windows of Boston Irish pubs which regularly hold fundraising nights for the IRA, and keep collection boxes which are used to fund their training and arming in plain view? Would that make them more or less likely to allow us to extradite Irish terrorists from their soil in future?


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 856

Chris M

Well I didn't mean it quite that seriously GT, but do what you like.
Sheesh.


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 857

GTBacchus

<>

Regardless of whether they gave protection money to the IRA, we (meaning all of humanity) should boycott McDonald's on grounds of bad taste. smiley - smiley

Sorry about that last posting. I was upset. I feel better now. The thought of not eating at McDonald's cheered me up.


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 858

GTBacchus

<>

Yes, Kid, I overreacted. You hit a soft spot because, as I said, you were completely right to call me on my provincialism. I go to pains to avoid that kind of small-mindedness and when I fail, it's upsetting. You caught me on my second failing in short succession.

No hard feelings, eh?

smiley - peacedove


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 859

Chris M

Well I'll forgive your provincialism if you can forgive mine. I didn't realise you were in Nairobi, for starters. How is it?

smiley - peacedove


Love Islam, Hate America?

Post 860

GTBacchus

Oh my goodness smiley - yikes They moderated my posting in which I was less than complimentary about McDonald's! I'd forgotten about corporate sensitivities here!

...and your posting about McDonald's! And my posting in which I was bitchy!

Anyway, back on topic (and careful of what I say...)

<>

Thanks for asking! smiley - smiley

It's nice. I've been here for a month, and plan to stay for four years (college). The weather is great, the poverty is depressing, and the flora and fauna are fascinating! They don't have any McDonald's here, but there's an omnipresent fried chicken fast food place called Kenchic.

There's only been one big anti-American protest, and the president was in the newspaper today being cross with those protesters. I know there are a few radical Moslems here, but I don't feel particularly threatened. At least I don't feel more threatened now than I would ordinarily, because it's assumed that a Mzungu (white person) is carrying gobs of cash all the time, and therefore a good target for conmen, beggars, robbers, etc.

I'm glad to be here because I really wanted to get outside of the "West" and see what it's like elsewhere. Beyond that, the choice of place was random. Regarding feelings about the "War on Terror," the opinions they print in the papers are alternately supportive and critical of the strikes on Afghanistan. Mostly the critical editorials cover the truism that the US needs to be addressing the causes of terrorism, like its own less than ideal foreign policies. The supportive positions all sort of sound like that 1973(?) essay by that Canadian. <smiley rolling eyes>

Attempting to be sort of on topic for the thread, all of the Moslems that I've actually *met* here and interacted with (students) have been very nice people who haven't tried to kill me at all. I want to buy a copy of the Koran, because I really want to study Islam, but I've got to finish the book of Zen essays I'm reading first. smiley - zen

smiley - cheers


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