h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Why is it anti-globalization campaigners always complain about what's happening on the other side of the planet?

They probably go along with the global village hype pedalled by brain-dead advertising agencies

One thing I have noticed here is that everyone keeps refering to Islam as though it was a monolitic thing. It isn't....there are several different sects...the Shi'ite, Sunnis, Sufis (although their numbers are extremely small), and then there's the sect from which The Assads of Jordan stem, although their name escapes me at the moment. The Shia and the Sunni are not exactly cordial in their relations. And let's not forget the 25% of people in the Middle East who consider themselves Kurds. We are talking about something akin to Western protestantism. Different doctrines, etc. At risk of being simplistic, the Shia, with their need for leaders until the 13th Imam returns, are susceptible to following a leader, sometimes blindly. If that leader turns out to be someone perhaps not suited for the job of guiding the faithful (here I am thinking of Ayatollah Khomeni), then there can be issues with what, exactly, a good Muslim would be in this setting.

Osama Bin Laden is a renegade Pan-Arabist with, sadly, a model of the world that does not, and cannot, exist in reality. He believes that all Arabs need one leader, and forgets the reality of the situation.

I guess what I am saying here is that we are trying to simplify something that is complex, and long in the making. The colonial interests of France, Britain and Italy in the 19th and 20th centuries, and the Western disdain for the "backward" way of life in most Middle Eastern countries, which is sadly similar to the way in which the United States viewed the native peoples here, have certainly added to the complex issues of the region. But to say that anyone who is Muslim is automatically suspect, or that Islam is a monolithic thing, is just simplistic.

Hello redhead and everyone. Your summary of Islam and its sects is more or less correct. Am a Muslim, a non-Arab and even so I do not subscribe to the Osama modus operandi.
But if u have watched the media especially in the US, they have made up their minds who is responsible. The CNN even implicated two brothers and one turns out dead a long time. That man's life will NEVER be the same. Reason? He is Arab and he trained as a pilot. His picture was beemed around the world as a prime suspect.
These rush conclusions before investigations are complete will eventually hike the passions with disastrous effects I think.
All being said, those who know Islam will testify that it does not support anything even close to what happened in NY. On the same token, we should not see other similar tragedies as less painful. Palestine, Bosnia, Chechnya, Kasmir, the list is endless, simply because it is not on Ameican soil.
My feeling is that there is nothing better than to cease this opportunity and address ourselves to the "WHY" of this cycle of violence. Then we will be sure to stop it. Fact is, killing Osama by bombing Afghan is no solution. They say that there is a "network" all over the world. Will they bomb the other places? Hatred ladies and gentlemen knows no reasoning. And so long as American, and any other country for that matter, supports oppression of any kind, they will be breeding mega-killers. So i suggest that they pause and think deeply before they aim their anger (understandable) at a country because of the perceived hatred they have for a person in that country. And if the truth be said, fighting someone who has nothing to loose is costly! We have seen it on Sept 11!

*applause*

Mags.

"I for one do not have any sympathy whatsoever for the religious zealots who are the 'Taleban'. They have imposed a rigid religion based structure on their people by force of arms. They have harboured a self avowed terrorist who has a $5 million bounty on his head for previous acts of extreme terrorism against the United States. The government of any country would be perceived to be failing in it's duty if it failed to protect it's citizen's. Is the Taleban protecting it's citizens? The suicide rate among women in Afganistan is the highest in the world. The eight western aid workers currently detained in Afganistan are under threat of death for supposedly preaching Christianity. Are we really under any kind of illusion that this form of lifestyle is acceptable in the 21st century? The citizens of Afganistan are being terrorized by a bunch of armed ignorant religious zealots who place little value on life. The World Trade Center housed various institutions and business's, from around the world. The Royal Thai Embassy, Thai Government Offices, The Thai Farmers Bank are but three examples of other countries that have been touched by this extreme act of cowardice. Having worked in the Middle East before, during, and after the Gulf War I know that not all Arabs are Muslim and not all Muslims are radicals. However I witnessed a great deal of hatred towards the West and in particular America and Britain. I know that Syria harboured terrorists, I know that Damascus was a safe haven for terrorists to meet. I remember sitting in my office having lunch one day and my Syrian counterpart, who was a very nice guy called Jamal, pulling out his bread and a can of tuna which had written on it 'A gift to the people of Lebanon from the people of Germany. When I asked where he had gotten it, he replied that they sell it cheap in the market and smiled. He saw nothing at all wrong with that. I thought it was sign of the times. If the world leaders allow this barbarism (British citizens also died) to go unpunished, they will be failing in their sworn duties. Yes, they should have some proof, but terrorists have just provided nations with the justification (as if they didn't already have it) to vigorously persue and eradicate them."

SD

Hello again,
it seems that there are lots of opinions on Islam and its role in the attacks that took place on 11/9/2001.
Islam for sure condems such horrible acts against innocent people that had nothing to do or say in American policies overseas. Again, Bin Laden and the likes do not lisetn to any well known Muslim Scholar, they use their own, that is why he left the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia after the Gulf War. Since he is a Sunni Muslim, the big Schollars at that time where in many countries around the Islamic world, but mainly Saudia Arabia: Bin Baz, and Bin Othaimeen. In Jordan: Alalbani, and in Egypt: the imam of the AlAzhar. He listend to no one, took his money from his family, which decalred in 1994 that he was not part of them anymore. and left the coutry. Make no mistake he is no mad or stupid man, he "thinks" that he is fighting for the sake of Islam, and some ignorant souls believe that he does. But in reality he doesn't at all, he is giving Islam, a very forgiving religion a very very Bad name, and I hate him for that.
As a Human, Muslim, and an Arab I denounce these acts, I pray to Allah every single moment that whom ever did this is punished and killed thousands of times, for they have caused great pains for all of us.
As you all feel and know, many arabs/muslims see american foriegn policy especially towards the Middle East as being unjust. These people have something thats fueling this hatred. I think this should be a wakeup moment, that we have to fight terrerosim, we have to be just in our dealing with fellow humanbeings,find a solution to the Palestinen case, not imposing our morals and belifes on others, we have to give weight to the UN, which on many occations is just being ignored. And most important of all, we must not be driven by our "National interest", rather by our the interest of humanity. These are just my thoughts, I don't know if they will have any weight on anything. But i must not stop me from trying to acheive them.

I pray to Allah to heal our wounds, to bring justice to our world, and to forgive the innocent souls that have died for no reason in those horrible attacks. And to have mercy on the Afghan people whom are being dragged in all of this, and really have no say whatsoever. Amen

Intelligent Westerners know Islam is not monolithic, just like intelligent Middle Easterners know Islam does not condone terrorism. I'm all in favor of "we have to stop", but we also have to protect our citizens.

Fortunately, people are starting to realize it's a worldwide problem. Throwing bin Laden out of Afghanistan will do no good, if he just moves his operation to Bosnia, Sudan, or Indonesia.

For what it's worth, I think your comparison of Muslim hatred of America with the Crusades is legitamate. Unfortuantely, Islam seems to be at a stage in religious development similar to where the Catholic Church was during the time of the Inquisition and the Crusades. It's happened to many other religions as well. Not all Christians at the time of the Crusades were in favor of sending soldiers to retake Jerusalem but their dissent was considered heretical by those who believed the Pope spoke for Christ.

Personally I think we're seeing a historical payback for actions taken centuries ago by people who used religion for political purposes, (one reason for modern separation of Church and State). The Middle East has a very long memory and is sadly lacking in forgiveness. There is very little forgiveness between ethnic groups in the area. How can we expect the extremists among them to forgive us, or the West in general?

Very good historical viewpoint on Islam here;
[URL reomved by moderator]

Try again,
Good viewpoint on Islam here;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A632378

"Get ready for the new Crusade, the Crusade against terrorism and it's supporters."

I have a point I'd like to make:

I think the terrorists want retaliation without proof.

I have been thinking about it and here is where the logic leads me.
The terrorists committed this horror to provoke a large reaction from the US, to get its populace demanding retaliation.
They will have set it up so that it will be impossible to link it to the head of the organisation, presuming its the prime suspect, he doesn't use electronic communication, only messengers so there isn't a possibility of direct proof. And even if they have a message, I bet it will be cleaverly worded.
They want the US and partners to act against them with there strong theory but no proof. Then they can show pictures of innocent people [who are really innocent before you start] getting hurt, they will blame western imperialism, use it as a justification to legitimise there fight against the west, and countries will end up being swept along.
End result: A war, the war they want.

I don't know the solution, but this is how I see the problem.
They want us to see it as west against Islam, but it isn't. Islam states that women and children aren't to be harmed in war. The perpetrators are nutters, like the US born oklahoma bomber, and they want to use anti-US feelings to justify there cause and drag people along with them.

This is just a thought. And I in no way support this horror, or any horror to come.

Researcher PSG

Robert - is that a 'Good viewpoint'?
It seems biased and unfair to me.

¦M¦

I notice a lot of people calling followers of Islam, religious zealots. To be even-handed I guess you would also need to lump in the American-based fundamentalist Christians under the zealot label.

I dread to think what the warring factions of the religious right are saying about the current outrage.

Well, the point about the Crusades might have been well taken, had you not mixed up two events which had very little to do with eachother. The Crusades, particularly the first and second, had nothing to do with the common people, except for the People's Crusade, in which a few thousand old men, women and children, banned from the crusade called, ended up being slaughtered outside of Istanbul. But the majority of crusaders were knights, and the crusades were set up as a way to give all these fighting men something to DO, as they were having a lively time of attacking eachother and causing all sorts of internal havoc in Europe. You are right that the inquisition and the 4th crusade did overlap, but that crusade was ill-equipped, and mostly useless. Certainly, some victims of the inquisition were sent to Palestine (as the whole region was refered to then) to help against the burgeoning Ottoman Empire, but after 1180 or so, there was never a sustained effort to regain Jerusalem, as Innocent III was much more interested in building his own empire in Europe.

(Sorry for the long diatribe, but inquisitional history is my Master's specialty)

That said, this is not the inquistion, nor the crusades. This is a whole new ball of wax.

And has anyone thought of the women of Afghanistan as internal saboteurs? Think about it. These women lost so much when the Taliban gained control...their right to be free persons with lives was gone. Don't you think that if they had a chance, they would certainly aid in sabotaging them?

Loony, Jerry Falwell stated that he holds "pagans, abortionists, feminists, lesbians and gays" responsible for bringing this terror down upon the US, because they have turned away from God and have lost the US God's favor.

In response, I say the man is a loon, and if he really believes this, maybe he should go live with Bin Laden, as they both seem to think that anything past 500 BCE is bad.

It must be something to do with the name Jerry. I'm thinking Lewis, Springer...

I have been participating in this discussion with level headed characters until this fellow Robert showed up. It is people like him who want to inflame passions in the world. The website you give Sir, is full of lies and twisted statements. But I leave it to your conscience.
Back to rationality, I see now that minds are almost made up that Afghanistan should be attacked. In some way. I wonder what proof there is and in that aspect I now dont wonder why the media has been cheering on the Bin Laden theory. I dunno who done it, but it would be fair to punish the right persons. If we go into this with our emotions, we may end up pummelling the wrong guys, while the real killers plan the next one. And you know I am just thinking aloud here, if they kill or catch Bin Laden and this doesnt stop, who will they blame? I wonder.
PSG may actually have a point. That the whole mayhem may have been planned by individuals who want to see an American massive response, in which case there will be no difference between the original "sin" and the "revenge sin". Which leads me to ask, who stands to benefit most from this tragedy? And while we are at that, why is there no worldwide condemnation of Israelis murdering Palestinians these past three or so days?
Hatred, stems from oppression and so long as we ignore other people's right to exist, there will be oppression and there will be hatred. Then there will be violence.

I guess the main beneficiaries would be the American construction industry and the American bands that fund them.

I wonder why none of the various world authorities have managed to freeze bin Laden's funds. Allegedly he has a personal fortune of $US300 million.

Maybe something similar to the blind eye that was turned to funds stashed in Switzerland during WW2 by the Nazis is in play here.