h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

This rhetoric is getting scary...

No-one used the word "war" in the first two or three hours. Now it is being used all the time.

I have just watched an American saying "Ben Laden is guilty of terrorism anyway, and we are justified in going for him whether or not he is behind this particular attack"

Now we are getting comments that *any* country which hosts terrorists should be attacked.

The shots of Palestinians celebrating showed about a dozen people. As the Channel 4 news anchor said "you can find scenes like that at any time, lets go back to the real news". Why show Palestilians celebrating if - like the rest of us - they were glued to their tv sets.

Did anyone actually see 'panic' on their screens? Shock, yes; trauma, yes; but no panic.

And did anyone else notice that the Israelis were reported - once and once only - as withdrawing from all their embassies world-wide?

And am I the only person who caught the use of the words "brought down" about plane #4, and who remembers comments about a plane #5?

I would beg everyone - Americans in particular - to stop and take a deep breath before saying "why us". And to stop and take several more deep breaths before saying "get the b******s". We need to know who is responsible before we can strike back.

And finally - everyone is saying that there was no warning. But I wonder. Someone sent me a couple of TXT messages yesterday from Ireland. It too 26 hours for them to get to me in the UK, and my phone was on all the time. My reaction at the time was 'maybe they were waiting to be approved for relay by the guys in GCHQ'.

Do not let the speculation and reaction manipulate you.

a girl called Ben

I want to know what happned to plane #5. Was there a plane 5? - for a while there reports of as United Airlines flight 175 as being "deeply concerning" and then it vanished from newsworthy reporting.

Also as far as I can gleam from the news Ben Laden's link to the attack, stems from his former involvement with the WTC car-bombing a few years back, and noted history of terrorist activity. (Jhihads against the USA, the embassy bombings etc.)
Yet there is no firm link *yet* to establish the awful events in new York this afternon with him or any associated group. 'There will be many claims and counter claims made' warned one of the many politcal analysts wheeled before the cameras during the day.
No-one can deny the horrific nature of what happened today - but it is far too early, I think, to even establish a name however credibale and appealing it might seem to do so, even if it may turn out to be the correct one.

Lastly the "War" tag comes from ,again as best as I can tell, the "2nd Pearl Harbour" comment made my a senior politican earlier in the day. It does not take a fantastic leap of the imgination to extended the metaphor.

There may never have been a plane #5. But if there was - then I would like to know what happened to it.

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a girl called Ben

Tom Brokaw (newscaster of NBC and WW2 documenter) was very quick to use the terminology of a "state of war" and "second pearl harbor." This rhetoric was also heard and echoed by politicians interviewed by several politicians. Technically, we are in a war-like state of alert. Politicians have been evacuated to secure locations, military bases are on high alert. This does not necessarily mean we will be attacking anybody yet I hope.

I too also heard reports of a fifth plane, but those were quickly discounted as rumors. Discussion of a car bomb at the state department was soon dismissed, and many of the networks have been surprisingly restrained about reporting things as anything but rumors until they have proper confirmation. People at the Pentagon were warned to brace themselves though. There was also panic about a white plane near the White House, but that was later described as probably being a government plane.

People have been somewhat cautious in naming possible perpetrators, largely as a result of how people jumped to completely wrong conclusions after Oklahoma City.

Why is Tony Blair saying "me too, me too?" Why is he trying to organise an international reaction, when the US have not requested anything of the sort.

Does he think that it is too dull here, with no attacks by the IRA?

Or is he just brown-nosing?

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a girl called Ben

It's important to remember the human cost and not get overly concerned with the economic damage too, they've been talking about stocks and shares as though they're more important tan human lives,: that's the kind of thinking which causes this conflict.

Besides if this is the 2nd Pearl Harbour, that was they spark that ended the greatest depression in American history. But at what cost.

I'll repeat my previous statement, because i'm a little numb and think i said it as well as i could on the other forum:



This is obviously a terrible occurrance, and ultimately one which will serve no good to anyone.

It's all too sad to see the small isolated occurances of rejoycing on the TV, but when you've had years of having your neighbourhood bombed, your family and freinds killed, it must seem somehow just to see your oppressors get a taste too. It's just such a shame that no-one who will have been killed could really have changed anything. It's always the innocent that suffer.

Lets hope that response to this matter will be massive, and holistic. That terrorism will be fought internationally and universally though common effort and with common goal. This of course includes the systematic terrorism of the United States which has made them a target in the first place.

I only hope that this horror will make the american people, and their representatives, think twice and decide enough is enough, rather than digging in and breeding more hatered and bloodshed.

I have two friend who frequently work in the WTC, obviously the lines are jammed across the US. I also have several arab freinds living in Boston, I can't imagine they'll have jobs tomorrow. The repecussions of this will be felt throughout these communities, and my thoughts and hopes rest with all of them.



I've had mail from all my friends asking me to contact and reassure their relatives. Though my friend Yassin has been asked no to go into work until further notice...

The latest I've read is that the identites of planes 4 and 5 have been merged and it was heading in the direction of Camp David, which is where the mysterious plane #5 was going. More than one American news agency (and even BBC Online) is making the "Pearl Harbor" connection--that hasn't been confined to politicians alone. I think it's a good way to describe the shock Americans feel. However this situation is entirely different. We're not facing a world at war. Hopefully never.

And I'd like to add that I'm sick of comments like those above, that somehow Americans have brought this upon themselves. No American rejoices when innocent people are killed abroad by terrorists. Somehow justifying these attack because of our government's past actions makes those pleas for peace hollow.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is BADBADBADBADBADBADBADBADBAD!!!!!!!!!!!

Who did this? Why? How?

This is unlike anything that was done before.

Islamic terrorists are suspected.

The Americans talk about being 'pro-active'. In other words, kill 'them' before 'they' can kill 'us.

They say that those responsible must be 'punished'.

Those DIRECTLY responsible are all dead. They're looking for people to punish in their stead. Something needs to be done. America cannot appear to be weak.

They (the Americans) are going to bomb countries. During those bombings many good people will be killed. They're going to increase their military capabilities. They're going to increase their intelligence capabilities. There will be more spying. It will also happen inside America. People will become more suspicious of each other. Law enforcement is going to be more ruthless and pro-active.

People are terrified all over the country. The illusion of normality, of safety, is shattered. People have lost loved ones. People know people who have lost loved ones. People imagine similar things happening to them and their loved ones. People fear for their safety, for their future.

The world economy has been dealt a severe blow. The World Trade Centre was a symbol of capitalism.

There are a great many anti-capitalists around the world. I am one of them. How will this influence perceptions of capitalism, and of those opposed to it?

People have died. How did it feel like, to them? How did it feel like to the people who hijacked those planes and steered them into those buildings? What could have made them feel that strongly about their causes? Can anybody here imagine what could have driven them to do something like that? Imagine yourself going through the amount of planning and preparation for such an act - the secrecy, the danger, the constant awareness that it will be the last thing you'll ever do. Imagine yourself going through with it, right to the point where you and your friends and your hostages crash into that building.

Many more people are going to die. Make no mistake - there are lots of people around the world who are disenchanted with the American government. I am one of them. I am no fan of George W. Bush. I am no admirer of American strong-arm tactics and the way they try to dominate the world. Almost everybody outside America has some sympathy for the many victims of American oppression. Does it mean that we are happy about these attacks? Hell, no!!!!!!!!! A few people, maybe ... like those Palestinians dancing and giving out treats. Did you see, many of them were children! Are they evil devils? Why do they revel in America's misery? Why does anybody revel in the misery of anybody else? Why are people selfish? Why are people not filled to the point of overflowing with Love? Are you? What's wrong with the world, with us????

Fraulein, I read the thread very carefully; I think there is only one comment which comes in to the categories you say.

I am not going to comment on the US. This thread is about the media, and the media are full of confused and confusing rhetoric, and I will continue to comment with that.

Anyone else wonder why there hasn't been a peep out of Hilary Clinton?
And isnt Rudi Guiliani impressive?

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***B

I guess, Ben, I'm troubled by researchers here and the comments of individuals throughout the world--as reported in various news outlets (the real subject of this thread) that, in essence, it's now "America's turn". It shouldn't be ANYONE'S turn to be terrified or slaughtered because of ideology. Period. Trying to rationalize terror is an exercise in futility.

oh I know I've heard similar sentiments cropping up here and there.
It makes it out that America was somehow deserving of this - an utter falsehood. It's absolutly deplorable to think that anyone can delight in the affliction of another.

The news (UK) just seems to be repeat after repeat after repeat of the same images and growing speculation about who/why/what is reponsible. They are just searching around for new things to say.

Some idiot newscaster even said it will be 24 hours before anyone knows how many people have died. 24 hours? The size and complexity of those buildings - three weeks more like.

Well, despite her connection to the previous president, Hillary Clinton is a junior senator in her first term. The media have been much more interested in talking to higher-ranking Senators and Representatives (the speaker of the house, chairman of joint chiefs, etc.), since they have a bigger say in what potential US policy might be. As a member of the Budget, Environment, and Labor and Pensions Committees, she's not really in much of an important position.

All military bases worldwide are apparently now at Delta level of readiness which is the highest "normal" state of alert (I'm not sure if it's quite at "Dr. Strangelove" levels), but I guess this underscores the war rhetoric. Also, there are the jets flying cover over New York and DC.

The thing is, facts are scarce, so there's lots of speculation. It's still all speculation that it was indeed islamic terrorists who were responsible. For a while it seemed as if it was the US that was bombing Afghanistan, and now they say it's not. There's a lot of extremely frightening rhetoric being spoken about how the US must react.

What, exactly, do you consider rhetoric here, agcB?

Fraulein, you are quite right. The idea that it might now be America's "turn" is nauseating.

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***B

Blair chaired a committee (C.O.B.R.A - 'pparently) that issued an edict diverting all in-coming flightpaths away from London. They are fearful that the events in America might inspire like-minds.

Well they'll get a good nights sleep in Isleworth tonight!

Isleworth being on the final approach to London Heathrow as approached from over Central London...

AH.

Unless they are online like we all are trying to make a little sense of it all