h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"The word "cowardly," ... refers to the terrorist leaders who prefer to carry out sneak attacks against defenseless civilians rather than standing up and airing their complaints in a way that allows for dialogue and compromise, and who hide in such a way that their enemy can't attack them without serious political backlash."

In this case, I can see how it might be ok to use it in that sense. But one thing I am aware of is that Irish Republicans used both terrorism and the democratic process in their complaints, the one both re-inforcing and compromising the other.

My guess - and it is a guess - is that people resort to terrorism when they feel that they are not being listened to. Churchill said that war was politics by other means. Likewise, terrorism is negotiation by other means.

Thank you for explaining. I dislike it when the language is abused in an attempt to manipulate my response.

I can accept the use of the word 'cowardly' about terrorist leaders (though I still don't agree with that interpretation).

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***B

(just an opinion) but it seems that the language used by the media doesn't seems to be as inflammatory as the language used by "representatives" and "officials"

M.

It makes sense that the media isn't stirring the pot as much as politicos. News organizations are happy enough with their pictures of planes flying into buildings and buildings falling down that they don't need to say too much to get peoples' attention.

The politicians, on the other hand, are setting the stage for retaliation. The more time they spend demonizing whoever did this, the less people will be able to protest against certain retaliatory actions, such as airstrikes, invasions, forced extractions (read: kidnappings), that sort of thing. Heck, this is a golden opportunity for people spoiling for a war to finally have someone to attack again.

Wampus

Editorial Note: This conversation has been moved from 'Ask the h2g2 Community' to 'Talking Point: 11 September, 2001'.

True, I really hope that America does sot fight back with force. Fighting fire with fire does not work and will just make the retaliation look week. Isn't the American policy not to give in to terrrists, I know that there are no demands, but attcking back would be just that. It is an extreamly good excuse however.

I still can't believe what i saw yestoday. I went to turn on the TV at 2(BST) yestoday, saw this burning building and thought there was some file on. I saw from the second plane crash onwards for about 5 hours. It was devistating, and all I could do was pray and hope.


BBC coverage:
I was a little dissapionted by the BBC news coverage however. I moved to channel 3 when the second tower collapsed becase the BBC footage was all repeating the plane crashes. The news ticker said that the second had falling and they were showing both still there. ITV actually kept a live feed throughout give a more real picture rather then the BBC's sensationalist view.
Also are others finding the site slow?

God be with them.

Just to say that Hilary Clinton has reacted. She gave a fairly short statement saying that both Bill and her were shocked and horrified, etc. and that they obviously support the current administration, as they are well aware of the need for cross-party support in times of crisis. Or something like that.

As to those that are shocked by rejoicing in parts of the world, please remember two things - firstly that a tiny proportion of these populations are celebrating (I've heard people suggest the US withdraw all aid to places where the footage is from - terrifying), and secondly that a far greater number celebrated the bombing of hiroshima, which killed a far greater number.

Bill Clinton, who is here in Australia at th moment, also issued a statement (at an airport just before he got on a plane) - he looked really shaken and upset, understandably...

>>and secondly that a far greater number celebrated the bombing of hiroshima, which killed a far greater number.<<

god how very true.

They've jsut said that they found an arabian flight instruction manual (or something like that) in a rental car belonging to someone they've pinpointed as one of the culprits...does that strike anyone else as just a little too convenient?

Dear all,
First, my deepest condolences to every American. Your sadness and pain we share globally.

Seondly, to express my fear in reading, seeing the response of some people. Hate mails bombard some internet forums. I surfed through some forums in Yahoo, and found sour and abusive words have been used against Islamic follwers.

Provoking words, full of hatred, have been used (or near to the level of exploitation). Such as, RETALIATION, AVENGE, WAR, B*****D, etc.

I would just like to recall a few words, by Martin Luther, to all Americans:

"Darkness can's get rid of darkness, but light can.
Hatred can't get rid of hatred, but love can."

I strongly believe that most Americans love peace and harmony. Instead of searching a scapegoat to let go their anger, they should ask themselves, "What bring them to today's tragedy?". Are they totally free from respnsible in such events?

I strongly don't feel comfortable with Mr Bush's claiming for "avenge". Will that resolve the entire problems?

What is the cuase of today's event? This should be the answer that America's authority seek and prevent it from happening again.

I believe after this tragedy, Americans wil become much stronger, as what they always did in the pass.

Lastly, God bless all the world.


Little boy in Singapore,
Joe

The simple fact is... the press reported a number of "rumors" and did clearly say they had been "unconfirmed". This would explain many early news reports of a car bomb in front of the State House, the shooting down of a plane, other plane crashes and the report of a fifth plane. I know that NBC did report on the chance of a fifth plane. I believe this palne turned out to be the Delta Airlines flight which was diverted to Cleveland Hopkins International Airport in Cleveland, Ohio. Apparently, the pilot reported a concern that a bomb might be on the plane. The plane was allowed to land and held until a bomb squad could investigate. Understandably, this matter was treated as a very serious situation.

In Cleveland, the initial closing of the Federal Building and airports was quickly followed by the closing of Key Tower (the tallest building between New York and Chicago), Tower City Centre Complex (which includes the Terminal Tower), the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame, City Hall, the Convention Center and many other building in downtown Cleveland.

Thankfully, the Delta flight was found to be free of explosives.

i still don't know what to make of it all, obviously i feel what's happening in the states, but i also pretty scared.

I'm a child of the '80's, i remember watching 'threads' and 'the day after' (13ish - fairly impressionable) 2 fairly horrific programmes about the aftermath of a nuclear war plus I clearly remember tptb testing the civil defence sirens while i was at school - that's pretty scary. now maybe all this means i may have a disportionate fear and paranoia but watching tony on the telly last night, i couldn't help but think that he's our only hope, for this not to turn into a western vs islam war it has to be an international effort to get the right people, if america acts on its own (and i can fully understand why it would want retribution - but for me, losing one more life is too much) it might be seen by other arab states as a call to arms, and that's when my fertile imagination works over time. So I welcome Tony's efforts, while the US is grieving.Its no secret that i haven't got a fairly high opinion of dubya, and i hope to god that the man i saw on telly last night, isn't a man out of his depth, i pray he isn't(then again, would we have thought he'd have to face a situation like this... perhaps?)
i haven't yet allowed myself to hope that something good will come out of this ... i pray to god i'm wrong

About the fifth plane,
As I understand it, there was no fifth plane hijacked; there was merely a plane whose pilot suspected a bomb being planted on it, so it landed midway to it's destination. So, there could have been potential for another hijacking, but it was averted before anything else could happen.

About the attacks,
I live in Florida, and I was at school at the time. My class was flipping through the television channels to watch our school's morning show, when we saw footage of one of the Twin Towers smoking. We all thought it was a joke, or perhaps even a coincidence, one jet slamming into a tower is unlikely but certainly not indicative of terrorist attacks. But then we saw the second jet slam into the second Tower, and we just sort of watched on dreamily. Then, in the next class, we saw the Pentagon, which, I suppose, is now the Open Ended Square. Finally, we saw the towers crumble, and people leaping out of the buildings, and it finally hit us hard that America had truly been attacked.

About the deaths,
Probably untold thousands are dead, and it certainly is a tragedy, but many more people in America die from hurricanes, forest fires, tornadoes, floods, earthquakes, blizzards, lightning, sinkholes, and Bigfoot, and we always manage to bounce back from those losses. What people seem most upset about (at least from the atmosphere I am experiencing) is the fact that someone had the balls to attack America, albeit in an incredibly cowardly fashion.

About the terrorists,
It may have been bin Laden, as all intelligence reports so far point to him, but then again, it may not have been him. The only thing we can do so far is find out who did it as quickly as possible. What I fear is if it is something like the Oklahoma bombing, where the perpetrator, Timothy McVeigh, was an American. If it turns out to be an American behind these tragedies, what can we do about it? America craves action; the government will do everything they can to satisfy. And, President Bush gave every other country on Earth a prerogative to search for whoever did this, stating "we will treat whoever harbors these terrorists in the same manner as the terrorists themselves." So, basically, if America finds out who did this before anyone else, they are going to attack the country the terrorists are found in, and, if I understand correctly, as will all of America's allies. I do not understand how we can't find bin Laden, who is the main suspect, as I'm sure the spy satellites and planes should be able to spot terrorist activities (unless, of course, they train and live underground, in which case America cannot win against these mole people, with their drill tanks and giant, misshapen eyes that can see in the dark)

So, I am disgusted and a little afraid of these attacks, but I am sure justice will be wrought; in what manner, however, I am not sure. As an American, I do not believe ANY attack like this, upon thousands of citizens, is justified in any way; I do not believe America "deserves" this. I'm an American, and I don't remember ever doing anything to anybody, except perhaps for subjecting them to my Bad Poetry…

--Doyle Reaction

Sorry for the REALLY long post, but I had to get some things off my chest.

I just hope the US goverment and others do not resort to the same mindless boming that the terrorists have. As that will be bringing them down to the same level as them, as we hopefuly can still be civilised even after actions like this.

I tried to post this before, the connection is slow and i guess it didn't get through. In response to an early post on this forum i replied:

If anyone thought that in any way i was trying to say that those poor people who died yesterday "have brought this upon themselves". As i said, no-one is served by acts like this, and only the innocent suffer.

The truth is that the US has been at war in the 3rd world and Middle East for years, killing primarily civilians, destroying democracy in sovereign countries and installing tyrannical regimes. No, i don't think these people deserve what they got, i don't think anyone deserves it, reaction only causes counter reaction, bitterness and hatred grow. I do however think it is to be expected. You cannot, as a nation, behave like that and expect no retaliation. And as a nation you have declared civilians, women and children just targets.

I've spent the night passing calls between worried relatives, the international lines seem to be alight. The human cost of this is immense. The financial cost is irrelevant. What matters is where we go from here, how we react, and if we are to rid the world of terrorism then we must put our own house in order too.

For the first time in my life I felt real horror and shock watching the scenes in New York. Being American and watching a place where my friends work being decimated like that brought home to me the real terror of this thing. I have been on the phone most of the night with friends in New York and can tell you that they are terrified!

Forget the Plane 1 or 5 or whatever for the moment and put yourself in the shoes of people who have never had an invasion or attack in their history (excluding of course the American Revolution). Think about how you would feel. They are scared, and when people are scared, human nature is to turn that fear into hate and into thoughts of revenge. Most Americans aren't quite sure what to feel - their sensible and reasonable side knows that war is not what they want, but their emotive and reactive sides feel that they have to get even.

Its very easy to take the moral high ground when you are a detached viewer, but it's not so easy when up to seven of my friends might be dead or severely injured. I would like to think that I am able to take the high ground and remain objective but no such luck.

I don't like the implication of war, but I want to get even. This is not getting even with a religion (Islam cannot be a religion that condones violence; it also considers suicide an act which condemns you to hell) or with a particular nationality. This is getting even with all those fanatics out there who want to blame someone and attack someone for their prosperity. We cannot turn the other cheek or show them love and compassion - people who do this cannot have any respect for the sanctity of human life - so how can you reason with these types of people? Reason only works with those who respect life and these persons have shown an utter disregard for that. They are, in my simple definition, animals.

I am almost certain that with so many "hawks" in Bush's administration, there will be retaliation. And this retaliation will be enormous - this isn't about launching a few cruise missiles and hoping the offenders say sorry, but rather about exacting a revenge that will be remembered as long as yesterday's attack will be.

Shame to say it, but god help whoever did this because there will be retribution, and it will be heavy.

For the first time in my life I felt real horror and shock watching the scenes in New York. Being American and watching a place where my friends work being decimated like that brought home to me the real terror of this thing. I have been on the phone most of the night with friends in New York and can tell you that they are terrified!

Forget the Plane 1 or 5 or whatever for the moment and put yourself in the shoes of people who have never had an invasion or attack in their history (excluding of course the American Revolution). Think about how you would feel. They are scared, and when people are scared, human nature is to turn that fear into hate and into thoughts of revenge. Most Americans aren't quite sure what to feel - their sensible and reasonable side knows that war is not what they want, but their emotive and reactive sides feel that they have to get even.

Its very easy to take the moral high ground when you are a detached viewer, but it's not so easy when up to seven of my friends might be dead or severely injured. I would like to think that I am able to take the high ground and remain objective but no such luck.

I don't like the implication of war, but I want to get even. This is not getting even with a religion (Islam cannot be a religion that condones violence; it also considers suicide an act which condemns you to hell) or with a particular nationality. This is getting even with all those fanatics out there who want to blame someone and attack someone for their prosperity. We cannot turn the other cheek or show them love and compassion - people who do this cannot have any respect for the sanctity of human life - so how can you reason with these types of people? Reason only works with those who respect life and these persons have shown an utter disregard for that. They are, in my simple definition, animals.

I am almost certain that with so many "hawks" in Bush's administration, there will be retaliation. And this retaliation will be enormous - this isn't about launching a few cruise missiles and hoping the offenders say sorry, but rather about exacting a revenge that will be remembered as long as yesterday's attack will be.

Shame to say it, but god help whoever did this because there will be retribution, and it will be heavy.

I'm concerned with this definition of a "Rogue State". Apparently it is 'any country which harbours, sponsers and funds terrorist groups'. Surely under this definition Nicaragua would have been within their rights to bomb the USA for supporting and training the Contras? The UK would have been within their rights to attack the USA and Ireland for funding the IRA and there are a host of other places where this definition could apply to Western states. Is that great smell of Hypocrisy in the air?

There seems to be a contradiction in the discussion of which groups are responsible for the attacks in NY and Washington.

On the one hand I've heard reported in several places that a linkup between several groups with common aims is suspected in order for such a complex attack to be carried through successfully.

On the other hand surely the fact that intelligence agencies of all western countries were taken completely by surprise would suggest a tight organisation behind the attack with as few people as possible in the know. I don't doubt that some militant Islamic organisations must have been infiltrated by US and Israeli intelligence, doesn't the succesfully kept secret suggest that the numbers of organisations and individuals involved was the absolute minimum required to carry out the attack?

Wampus,
Your comment about 'terrorists not realising what they are doing' is mistaken. Modern terrorists learnt the lessons from Chairman Mao very well. It will be these terrorists greatest wish that the USA attacks a whole country or 'rogue state' as this will force the common people to become politicised thereby producing a ground swell of support for the terrorists cause. Does the USA truly think it is going to be able to do anything about these people through military action? If so they have not learnt anything from history and will be doomed ( and us) to an escalation of the situation that they will not be able to contain -a single man infected with virulent disease anyone!!