h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

...time to kick some butt...

o bin liner has had his time.

alec.(looking forward to a brutal but accurate response)

i'll settle for just brutal.

No brutality Alec, just a response. The special forces that were dropped recently are "kicking butt" using the techniques for which they were trained. But if they don't make inroads before October they will be up to their trigger guards in snow. The Afghans have a history of not fighting foreign soldiers except by ambush. (Past history, British, Russians etc.) The Western forces need to consolidate their position with the Afghan Northern Alliance. The NA are the only people the Taliban Afghans will fight pitched-battle wise.

Bin Laden may or may not be in Afghanistan, The Saudi royal family have moved to Geneva, leaving Prince Abdullah in charge. Laden is a trusted friend and servant of this Prince. Draw your own conclusions.

As a slight aside I wonder if we will see any investigation into the business dealings between Mark Thatcher and the Bin Laden Group.

Here's an extract from an email circulated by an Afghan-American, Tamim Ansary. He makes strong arguments against an all-out retributive attack.

"We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age," he wrote. "Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs."

True, and to-day's news reports that the Taliban have banned all aid agencies from any communications, as well as confiscating three tonnes of foodstuffs destined for the people. The largely Pushtun Taliban don't give a tinker's damn for the minority ethnic Afghans.
But they Northern Alliance does. And they are part of Rabbani's legal government. Saving what is left of Afghanistan, and attempting to deal with bin Laden does not necessarily mean the use of bombs, nor aerial warfare. Softly, softly catchee monkey.

Meanwhile the IRA terrorists who are partly funded by American-based organisations whose bank accounts have not been frozen fight on.

Explosions and shots shook parts of north Belfast as violence flared in sectarian flashpoints for the third night running, police said.

Three powerful blasts and bursts of gunfire stirred fresh tension in zones where Protestants and Roman Catholics live in a climate of friction that has regularly spilled over into violence in recent months. There were no reports of injuries but 14 police officers were hurt, including four who were in a mobile patrol vehicle when a pipebomb exploded close by.

The latest flareup followed sporadic but intensive bouts of violence in hotspots on Sunday when bricks, bottles, incendiary devices and blast bombs were hurled by rival gangs. Homes were damaged and each side blamed "the other" for instigating it.

Jane Kennedy, security minister at Britain's Northern Ireland Office, condemned the Duncairn Gardens shooting as "discriminate and indiscriminate".

Protestant "Unionists" pointed a finger for the gun attacks at the Irish Republican Army and its Sinn Fein political ally.

The IRA has halted a 30-year war against rule from London but Protestant politicians say the IRA must change tack and agree to destroy its arsenal if they are ever to accept that its "war is over".

Sinn Fein blamed "loyalists" for the use of the pipebombs, which are a central part of loyalist militias' armoury of home-made weaponry.

Police said rioting over the weekend at Limestone Road and Crumlin Road had been among the worst for years.

Loony, you must be exhausted. (Or the master of cut & paste) Didn't mean that seriously.

The Irish problems appear to be one long historial debacle. However I have never understood how Mary Robinson, who came no closer than anyone else to a peaceful solution, could justify leaving Irish political sphere to join the UN and lecture the world at large.

Beats Me.

EtherZev, I work from home (writing) in a room that has TVs tuned to news channels CNN and Sky News. During the night (NZ time) one is switched from CNN to BBC World. And then there's the radio and the Internet...

Lucky you. We have radio and the internet (obviously), but no cable TV here. I just tune the TV programs out until something interesting is broadcast. soaps - ugh.

That's unhealthy, Loony... keeping up to date with world events at a time of such trepidation is admirably well-informed, but probably not a good thing to be doing *too* much of right now. Watch some comedy or something guy.

I think the proliferation of access to news shows, and their "This Is The News. Abandon Hope" mentality 95% of the time creates a greater degree of tension between involved parties, who no doubt watch it, than would otherwise be necessary.

Would anyone agree?

One interesting point that, as far as I know, only one paper has seen fit to report that George Bush jr and Salem Bin Laden were equal partners in an oil company set up in the 70's. Salem, by the way, is Osam's brother. Makes you wonder if this isn't a lot more personal than it seems on the surface. . . .
What is it about the Bushes and the Middle East? Oil, obviously, by why drag the rest of the planet in?

Something I've thought about with all this talk of war is what we could do to avoid it all. If we had the time, maybe we could help the Afghanis: give them food, clothing, shelter, etc. Then maybe they would realize that the Taliban gov't hasn't done a darn thing for them and overthrow it.

It's something to think about

The UN were doing that - some two million afghans depend on the UN to feed them - UN food stocks in Afghanistan are now down to less than a weeks supply

The more one reads the more one understands that the Afghans are victims of the last of the Cold War politics and oil politics(dependence upon a cheap abundant supply).

Landmines can still be used by troops on the offensive. When you set up a perimiter, you use mines and trip flares in areas that you can't cover by direct fire. These aren't going to be large fields. Idealy, you should pick them up when you move on, because its a waste of resources to leave them behind.

I don't really see the world in black and white. I'm a patriot, but I acknowlge that the United States has made bad choices. Some of those choices had very cruel results. However, I find this attack to be an unacceptable form of protest. Those who did it should be captured or killed. We are not going to be able to settle this matter.

I believe that war is a legitimate tool of foriegn policy in cases of dire provocation. Leaving Afghanistan as a haven for terrorists is not acceptable. If it takes war, then that's what it takes.

We have to be very careful as to how we proceed. Carpet bombing will probably not have the desired effect.

We've blundered before, and helped set up the Taliban. We've created a situation where a gtrowing number in the Middle East support bin Laden. We need to elimmnate our enemies without creating another prolblem as we did the last time we were in Afghanistan.

If the Northern Alliance is politicaly accceptable to us, not just as a group who is not bin Laden, but a group that will govern responsibly, then we should assist them. Give them arms, provide air support, and possibly ground troops. I think we should also provide food, mnedicnince, education, and help them build their infrastructure up. Let them see the benefits of being in an area allied witht the United States, and get them where they can have a self sustaining economy. War can't solve all of our problems.

I don't see a benifit to blindly giving food aide in Taliban controled areas. They're already threatening to kill aide workers. The Taliban would use it to support their cause. I'd rather have them be greatful when they come under the influence of someone allied with us.

EtherZev
please tell the 7 year old in question, that we loved the question and thanks for making us laugh!

Aussie bin liner indeed

I so agree that the Afghan population contains a lot of innocent people who do not diserve to be entangled in this. Now that their 'government' have stopped any aid from getting in, how about dropping food parcels on them? If they are receiving food from the nasty westerners, then maybe they will forget why they hated us and maybe will aid us in re-building their country.

Was shocked to read that Pakistani schoolboys are being told that Mossad agents were responsible for the bombs, as the US wanted an excuse to start a war against Islam.

No wonder they are queueing to join up to fight us, that is so tragic to die for a cause that isn't even true - although many have done it before.

We should avoid causing further suffering among the population of Afghanistan. We have a beef with the Taliban, not the people.

If we feed the people in Taliban controlled areas of Afghanistan, what do we gain? We strengthen the oppressive Taliban government. I think giving aide in the Northern Alliance held areas would be a much better idea. Let the Northern Alliance gain territory and follow that up with aide to help them build a free republic.

And very few papers seem too bothered about the US's plans and threats to bomb Afganistan weeks before the incident.

Which surely change the whole nature of the tagedy from being Unprovoked Attacks, to being Pre-Emptive Strikes. It would appear that the US were trying to provoke something like this to give them an excuse for action (action which they had allready formed coallition consensus upon) but it seems they bit off a little more than they wanted to chew.

The Taliban don't really control all of the country anyway, though they have an important presence in the cities, and part of the counrty is held by the opposition forces with whom they are in civil war. But the Afgan people don't care anymore, they are tired and beaten, they want to be left alone, they have no strength to overthrow anyone, they don't even have the strength to support anyone most of the time, after twenty five years of fighting it doesn't matter who's in charge, each regime is as bad as the other.

Aid. That's what these people need. Food. Healthcare. Education and information. Giving them a bleeding chance would be a start.

I don't see why giving food to the people of Afganistan (whole country, not just particular regions), will strengthen the oppressive Taliban 'government'. I thought that if the people saw that the west was feeding them, while their own 'government' let them starve, it would weaken the oppresive Taliban 'government'.