h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

~waves at JEllen~


Ed....

It's good to hear that you are getting encouragment, makes my mental difficulties much easier to bear.

It's so unbelieveably good to hear someone with similar experiences, that is a selfish sort of observation - of course I wouldn't want to wish on anyone a mental quandray of racing thoughts haphazardly.

I get frustrated at my mental capabilities at times, I suppose you could call it downer being as frustration is not positive as such. I never actually thought of it as depressed because it doesn't last long and I 'eat a peach' and go elsewhere, using my frustration to make a better job of the next thing...

Ok I know this is cheesy, but if you didn't feel down once in a while, how would you know when you are feeling good and up.

I've learned not to dwell too long on some things, which is not a good thing. As my memory is shot as it is...

*******

Vix approves of the 'erb!

Actually...the 'erb can have good effects for some people and helps calm some people down, relax and also I have heard that it helps anorexics have an appetite and all other good stuff like that. Hemp is also a good source of material and making strong rope.

If it was legal that would be great, because the stuff could be monitored better.

I have actually been to Amsterdam and had a great time

What my ex was doing I didn't approve of.

Simply put, your doing great Ed and altho I think you don't need me to say that - I wanted to

Changing tack away from my recovery programme....I'd be interested in trading experiences of how things felt leading up to full-blown hypomania.

Both times for me have started in somewhat stressful times - the first time due to work (working away from home on a high pressure project with a control-freak boss) and the second time due to family stresses and strains (new baby, other young kids).

Both times I initially seemed to go into overdrive - working very hard, being stimulated, doing well. I had a lot of energy.

Then I started working /too/ hard - knocking off one task after another, and staying up late at night, often doing internet-y things. At these times I felt particularly creative and intelligent. For example, my foreign languages came easier than usual. I was sociable...and also horny as hell. Plus both times I acquired some hash (which is not a regular habit). As I think I've mentioned before, I also managed to deliver a very dynamic conference speech without a trace of nerves.

It's hard to say where I slipped into hypomania proper. Both times I guess I realised I was becoming a bit hyperactive - and indeed consulted doctors. But when it kicked in - and the 2nd time was far worse than the 1st - I don't think I had any real understanding that I'd lost it. I still had the creativity and quick-wittedness, but my ideas were now deranged and my behaviour potentially dangerous.

So I guess this relates back to my dilemma: the "good bits" can also be warning signs, and it's difficult to get a handle on at what stage I need to reign it in. As part of my ongoing treatment I have to maintain a relationship with a CPN who can get to know my mood over a long period - but I can see that if life started to get nice, there might be a temptation to hide it.

Any similar experiences of the build-up?

(And it's recently occured to me that, on some level, I'm "happier" being depressed. At least that's a nasty thing and I can look for support. But I'm more embarassed about seeking support for what was an exciting experience for me but a disturbing one for my loved ones).

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I have heard of it doing that, so if I were in the position you're in, I would avoid it! But it is good for other things, chemotherapy nausea, for one.
<< I took a short photography course run by a mental health organisation. Now I'm into photographing flowers and tweaking them electronically.>>
Sounds marvellous, Ed!
<< And my other creative skill is cooking: I must re-start my dormant recipe website.>>
So does this...

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How things felt...

errr...

Frantic comes to mind.

I was desperate too, trying to get a grip of my thoughts.

I was under a lot of pressure at the time, and don't forget underlying that, I had hormonal crap going on too- post natal.

I also wasn't sleeping too well.

In trying to distract myself by drawing from past experiences to help me cope with my situation - it made it worse for me at the time because of what was going on in my household.

My ex also had two daughters that lived with us. They were nice kids but my ex had no idea how to handle them...and would yell far too much at them over stupid things, he would lose it totally - not a pleasant sight and I didn't know how to intervene and was afraid - which I hated myself for at the time.. At Christmas they went to stay with their mom (who's jaw was broken in 3 places by my ex, in the past...I know eh, why did I get with this man!) and they didn't want to come back to live with us. I was upset of course but very glad they didn't because things were getting out of hand, just another thing to add to the cooking pot!

There were lots of things that built up, and lead to my breakdown. Some things that popped out verbatum must have been very confusing to people, because some of it was random thoughts I have about stuff in general, mixed in with past emotions and events and it was exceptionally hard for me to communicate. This upset me even more, because a part of my brain was very much aware of what was going on and couldn't rein it in.

I knew what was happening inside my head and tried to explain it and couldn't. All very sad.

I know the exact time I went into hyperdrive, it was when a doc threatened to section me under section 12 of the mental health act. This means you are locked away at their lesiure. I mentioned this previously in an earlier post to this thread I started.

My emotional psyche was all over the show and pretty intense but I couldn't focus on one emotion at a time it was all hurling around. I couldn't sit still for more than 5 secs...

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I enjoy melancholic thoughts or plain emotions that are perhaps generated by music...

What led up to my manic break? It was preceded by a gradual slide into depression over several years. The depression went undiagnosed, because I wasn't terribly unhappy, just exhausted all the time. I thought that I might have chronic fatigue syndrome, or low blood sugar, but I never realized I could be depressed. By May of 93 it had reached a point where every dish in my kitchen was dirty, and every piece of laundry dirty too - I just felt too bad most of the time to function. I needed all the energy I had to hold onto my retail job.

My transition from constant depression to psychosis was unbelievably rapid. I had checked out some interesting books at the library (about the resistance group White Rose) and stayed up most of the night, maybe all night, reading them. The next night I again read more than slept. Within a day or two, I was delusional - that fast. I didn't really have that buildup where you feel terrific for a few weeks before you actually lose it. Once I was delusional, I felt great, LOL, was experiencing euphoria, etc. Stopped sleeping altogether. Unfortunately the euphoria turned to terror once the delusions spiraled out of control.

Later manias happened just as fast or faster. I remember going in to work one day, being reasonably sane. After a few hours I started having ideas of reference. I called my boss and said I had to go home, then I called my Mom and my sister to come get me. By the time they arrived I was quite psychotic. Luckily they got me home without incident.

The third mania I remember was preceded with a lot of frantic writing and an obsession with something called holographic repatterning. I didn't feel good that time as I got manic - just more and more frantic. I guess that time it was a two week period before I got out of control.

I have attended a lot of support groups over the years, and I always used to get tickled by this one lady who suffered from unipolar depression. Whenever I would try and describe the chaos that mania had caused in my life, she would sign and say "I wish I could be manic!" I tried to explain to her that while mild mania is pleasant sometimes for some people, it always goes up into worse mania, or down into a bad depression, and it is really not worth it.

The first year after I was diagnosed, I did worry a lot whenever I felt good. But gradually I came to trust my ability to distinguish between that and mania -- and I trust my therapist and my family to give me feedback on whether I am stable. Especially my therapist, she is great.

Every single time I have gotten manic I have had ideas of reference -lyrics in songs, news reports, movies and tv, all seem to be referring to me. It sounds narcacistic as hell, but it's just part of the illness. But it has become a clear indicator that I am manic and need to go up on my medicine.

(One little post script, you might be surprised by my church Ed, there are actually a large number of atheist and agnostic members! They come for the comraderie, and the more secular parts of the services.)

JEllen

JEllen...

It sounds like neither of you experienced the pleasant side of hypomania in quite the same way that I did. At the onset, everything - and I mean everything - felt great. I was superhuman and could do anything. Even when things became - with hindsight - scary, I was able to rationalise things. In the end, I think I was genuinely surprised when a psychiatrist said "I'm going to section you." But I WAS as mad as a goose - and a mad goose at that. I remember in particular a few hours when I walked around my city, buying anything that seemed like a good idea at the time and falling in and out of a giddy, intoxicated state. Perfume smells got to me particularly, and even now I start to shake when I walk past the Lush cosmetics shop.

Vixen - I think I mean something different than "melancholy" - but you'll have experienced the same. Melancholic yearning can be a creative force - die Winterreise, and all that - although I tend to shun wholly melancholic music (I don't like Nick Cave, do like Leonard Cohen, and can't figure out why people don't get that the The Smiths were meant to be funny). Depression as I've experienced it, though, is wholly uncreative. Also, when I'm depressed, I become "anhedonic": nothing is fun. All music sounds dull and tinny. I have no interest in anything. It's the opposite of hypomania, when everything is interesting, all food tastes wonderful, and even an appaling experience as a passenger on a Czech airline is hilarious. So when I say I'm "happier" being depressed - well that's because hypomania seems (as JEllen suggests) self-indulgent, while when you're depressed, you can get sympathy.

JEllen: Hey! You're one of the few people I can talk to about the White Rose! Wartime German resistance is an interest of mine, and I hope talking about it won't have unpleasant associations. Talking to Germans makes one realise that there was actually quite a lot of it - a lot of people have family stories about hiding Jews, etc. etc. I've also learnt a lot from a friend who has pre-war KPD connections. It's an unacknowledged chapter of wartime history (the victor writes the history!). Do you also know about die Edelweisspiraten? Maybe we should start another thread somewhere......?

And on the Church thing - yes, I can see your point. By UU church, I take it you mean Unitarians, and I realise that not all unitarians are theists. It's what Kurt Vonnegut (himself a unitarian) would call a Karass. And I'm not ideologically opposed to them in a way that I am to other faiths

Hi, just to let you know I am unsubscribing from this convo. Didn't want to be rude and just disappear, although I havn't posted here for 2 weeks anyway. Whilst I recognise some of your symptoms, I think this is a convo you need. I have only experienced some stuff, I don't have it full-blown like you guys do, so you need this convo in a way I don't, so I reackon its best to let you have the space!

See you around the other places!

I am unsubscribing for the same reason as Kaz, because I don't feel I can usefully provide anything to the discussion, and with lots of good feeling and best hopes for you all!
Adelaide

Ed,

Oooo, yes, we should start a thread about White Rose - I would love to talk about them! Where do you think would be best to post? I could start a Journal entry about WR. The folks on my friends list might join in, but they are all cool cats and can be trusted to be courteous. I think that would be better than AskH2G2 - that attracts a larger audience, which automatically means there will be more idiotic and/or off topic posts. Of course, we could put it on your Journal if you prefer, since you seem even more knowlegable than me about it. Yes, European resistance to the Nazis, particularly the aiding of Jews, has been something of a fascination for me too. The members of White Rose are big heros of mine.

>> BACK ON TOPIC OF MANIA

When I went manic, since I had been reading about White Rose, on of the things I got delusional about the Nazis, that they had taken over the US govt. So, here's the funny part, when they get me to the hospital, who do they assign to me? A GERMAN DOCTOR! LOL Not funny at all at the time, of course, but pretty hilarious in retrospect.

JEllen

** So, have I scared off half the thread by being too explicit?**

I doubt it. It would be difficult to talk about hypomania without giving an account of one's experience. Plus your contributions illustrate that it is an illness, and as such it can pass and return one to normality. However - I guess we have been using the thread as a self-help group, and I simply take it that the unsubscribers (who I thank for their patience and politeness) feel that they are intruding on the process.

If anyone's wanting technical info. on hypomania, I guess we can still help answer questions or direct them to other sites. Although to be honest, little seems to be known about the medical aspects, and of that I know only a part. A couple of useful snippets though:

1) There is currently some scientific interest in the benefits of Omega-3 oils (derived from fish oil) for bi-polar disorder (and also schizophrenia). I myself have started taking it recently. One theory was that in our evolutionary past, the human diet was high in fish and our brain development relied on the fats. The doses needed are large, and if anyone in the UK wants, the cheapest source which gives high proportions of the right constitient is Boots Super Concentrated Fish Oil (which seems permanently to be on a 3 for 2 offer).

2) I was browsing Lewiss Wolpert's book recently (it's mainly on depression rather than b-p) and came across a chapter on eastern approaches to depression. I expected to read that it is regarded and treated differently. But, no, it's treated as an illness in exactly the same way and severly depressed patients are hospitalised and given anti-depressants.

JEllen: Yes, I've already started a Widerstand conversation in ask h2g2. So far the only answers have been about the July 20th Officers' Plot (the 60th anniversary was mentioned on BBC R4 the other week). I did some more browsing, and there seems to be a lot more on the www than last time I looked some good stuff on Sophie Scholl, e.g. And the story of Georg Esler is particularly fascinating. I'll go work out how to do a journal and invite folk to read it. I've just remembered that I've a story about a Student uprising in Prague which is also relevant to my hypomania.

I too take Omega 3 Oils at the suggestion of my psychiatrist. It's hard to tell how much of a difference they make. I used to take a combination of flax, fish, and borage oil, so that I would get Omega 3, 6, and 9. But that was getting too expensive, so I've switched over to just fish oil. It bugs me that certain things I need for my health, like the fish oil, and the calcium citrate I take for vulvar pain, are not covered by insurance. I need the calcium as much as I need any prescription drugs - pain flares up without it!

I will stop by German resistance thread soon and post some about WR, but at the moment I am very down because my beloved therapist is leaving town. (See journal)

JEllen

I went for a couple of months there without getting around to buying fish oil. In the last couple of weeks I've been taking sufficient to give me around 1500mg of EPA per day (with the Boots Super Strength brand I use, it works out at 8g per day - which is pretty expensive!). I have started to feel a lot better than earlier postings would indicate.

Keep on keeping on, JEllen.

I always feel much better after a tuna sandwich, more alert and brighter. Perhaps I should think about getting some cod liver oil capsules or something!

I did try to post sometime ago to here, but my postings got lost and they were rather long and waffling and I can't recall all of it now...sorry...shouldn't even mention it I suppose! I had so much trouble with hootoo, bumping me off, changing my page format I didn't bother trying again, and forgot about posting till now...

Sorry to hear about your therapist JEllen, I did post to your journal, I'm sure you'll find another nice guy or gal to talk to

I sometimes think about my state of mind before the mental episode, and I cringe when I remember how naive I was about everything in general.

I find myself embaressed at how inconsiderate I had been about others thoughts and emotions.

*waves to vixen*

I've never seen you being inconsiderate toward anyone on hootoo. I do think mania can make you lose sight of what others are thinking, BUT there are plenty of folks out there who are inconsiderate with no mania at all, LOL. Don't be too hard on yourself, it is part of the human condition, not always seeing from others point of view.

~waves~

Oh my gosh, you fell down the stairs? Stop that! Glad nothing is broken

thanks for your reassurance JEllen, I do try.

I was just outletting some thoughts about my behavoir and general demeanor in the past that was selfish, before I had my breakdown. If you'd have asked me at that time if I was selfish of course I would have said no, but I can see now, that I was!

Oh and send along those paintings n' things, I'd really like to see them Do you still have my addy?

I always say that we shouldn't feel a stigma about mental illness. After all, there are many people out there who clearly have severe personality disorders yet don't have the common decency to go get treatment!

*hehehe*

I like that statement!