h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

amanda sounds

amanda,
about your brother

annie,

i bet you get that a lot when you tell people about your "life choices" ideas, huh?

of course, i think more along the lines of amanda than you, but, hey, your eloquence and apparent deep thinking cannot be dismissed as preposterous.

i would like to think that life on Earth is in fact HELL.

peteY out

Amanda is OK to feel angry.
She can feel angry with me if she wants to.
Of course if I have a different way of looking at things, it can create situations.
If you consider that earth is Hell, then it's OK to think of those who die as escaping from Hell I suppose.
I prefer not to believe in Hell anywhere.

my thinking has come up with a different set of beliefs than you, but i lack the ability to get unless i'm shafted in some way.
but, then again, i haven't lost a sibling

i don't believe in "hell", but i was just saying that life on is hellish...

i hope you ARE right. it gives me something to look fwd to.
but, it WOULD be nice if we had more down time between our lives on this hellish planet

%-| ?

Part of the grief process is to feel angry.
When somebody dies from an illness, the anger is still there, but there's no where to put it or get rid of it.
So it turns inward and as I said before, depression is anger you feel you have no right to own. (Even if this is an illogical feeling)
Even believing in a god and being angry with god is a form of release. If you don't believe in God who can you vent against?
and grieving isn't only about the loss through death, it's about all the losses we endure.
and that is what life is about too, our gains and our losses and how we handle them.

Something to look forward to.
Tommorrow is as unknown as death, you can look forward to that too.

I just dont get why anyone would choose to suffer. That's all.

Amanda

You're right in that Amanda, a person wouldn't and I was talking about the thing that I believe we all are, as well as a person, the soul.
I am sorry for the sadness you must be feeling at the loss of your brother. I wish I could comfort you in a more personal way.
Your brother is a blessed being who came to experience exactly what he experienced, and to allow you to experience exactly what you experienced, and then he left as quickly as he came, to move on with his continuing experiences of Life Forever.
You, as his sister, were a grand blessing to him, at this physical level, and he understands very well the treasure with which he
was gifted by you. The love he experienced is a love he will never
forget.

Your two souls are linked forever, and have been from the beginning of time.
This is not the first time the two of you have danced together, nor will it be the last. You will see each other again and again and again, of that you may be sure. Be at peace and celebrate in the knowing that the roles you played together this time were perfectly crafted to allow each of you to remember exactly what you needed to know in order to grow and evolve and become more of
Who You Really Are.

Everything is perfect in God’s world, and nothing happens without purpose or meaning.

Tell him that YOU are all right; that you are going to “make it.” This is what he wishes to hear. Then he can be fully free. He will come to you often. In your feelings you will feel him, in your mind and dreams you will see him, and in your memories.

I resect your beliefs, but can not accept them at all.
My brother died 7 years ago Tuesday and I have had to come to terms with it and accept it. Did the 7 astronauts on the Columbia Choose to die today?

Manda

Yes.
Just as they chose to be astronauts.
In my belief system, they have moved to another place where they feel no pain.
They are not gone forever.
It took me a lot longer than seven years to accept my loss and I never really came to terms with it.
Oh I could hide from it for a few years and then something would happen to remind me and the scenes would pop up fresh as new in my mind and I'd feel the same feelings all over again as if it were yesterday.
What I now believe comforts me more than the idea that death is the end of everything.
I was bitter and angry, Why should this happen to me? What did I ever do wrong to have such a terrible thing happen in my life.
It just didn't feel fair.
I wanted to stomp my feet and shout Why ME? like a child in the playground.
The worst of it was that I felt the experience changed me for the worst. It made me lose sight of who I was. I asked myself how could I ever be happy again? I was a person that misery clung to and I allowed it to, I couldn't find a way not to allow it to if you understand.
My belief is the way I dealt with it. But it is only important that I believe it. I chose comfort instead of pain and happiness instead of sadness.

ok

Look, we all know the ANSWER is 42. but we also know, don't we that the question is the wrong one. The question is, actually, not 2what is for tea?", but "how long will tea be?" to which the answer is both "42" and 2make it yourself, then you will know"

No, they did not choose to DIE. (Though they chose to accept the risks associated with the rewards of going into space.)

I have a real concern that the belief that bad things happen to us by our own choice (intentionally, rather than as an unforeseen consequence) could have a negative effect on our sympathy for the victims of genuine misfortune. There seems to me to be no (and no possible) empirical reason for such a belief, which simply does not accord with my experience (though others may experience differently.)

I've lost two brothers prematurely myself (both to accidents in their twenties) so I'm not just being coldly detached here; I know what's involved. But I didn't choose that, and they didn't choose that. Life is seldom FAIR. Nor is it a test, that we somehow pass or fail. The meaning of the event here is not the meaning of purpose, but the meaning of consequences as we perceive them. Here we do have some choice, within the limits of our resources, both inside and out. Life is what you make of it.

Noggin

ok

I am with you on this one Noggin

Did you create this belief system to justify your experiences?
If so, anyone could have done that and made somethingup.
Do you have any evidence or backing for your belief system?
Have you been told that this is correct by some power?

Amanda

Again I'll say that the choice is not made by the living physical person. Perhaps I have not been eloquent enough to say what I mean.
If a soul decides which life it will live before it is born it seems to me to be more realistic than either; we all stumble about in life and then die, or that we are repaying some kind of debt from previous lives.

Other people have this belief.
Every religious idea ,every philosopical thought is something that somebody 'made up' or created.
Some people call life Karma, but have the belief that suffering is the direct result of actions in other lives, and that it is not chosen. I don't believe this.
I don't believe life is about reward and punishment.
Yes anyone could have made themselves a way of dealing with sadness.
Is this wrong?
Denial about my bank balance, or relationships with the proven things in the world can be dangerous but it is impossible to be in denial about those things which are unproven.
What I chose to believe in this circumstance is real to me.
Nobody can show me any evidence that it is wrong.
On a personal level I needed a reason for what had happened and spent years searching through various religious ideas for the meaning of life and death. None of which satisfied me.
Heaven or hell.?
Karmic retribution?
How could I apply these to a baby who never lived beyond the womb, a baby that was a very real person to me from the moment it was conceived.
At first I came to the conclusion that there was no God and that we were just all bits of flesh that lived, died and that was the end.
That there was actually no point in the continued struggle to go on for absolutely no apparent reason.

But this did not satisfy me either and it certainly didn't do anything for my feeling about life as being anything worth having.
If life was merely about creating progeny, then I had failed even that basic purpose.
Was I to live and die, shopping in Tescos, washing up, doing the daily grind until I keeled over from old age ?
I personally needed a reason to go on and it had to be bigger than keeping my house straight and tidy until death

In my experience it doesn't make me feel any LESS emotional or saddened when I hear of people's personal tragedies and yet most often it is a feeling of empathy for those left behind.
for instance the tragedy of 911 had an impact on me, as millions of others, but my empathy extends to those who were brainwashed into believing that if they did this terrible thing they would be rewarded with a very suspect version of heaven.
'Forgive them for they know not what they do'.

As I've said I've chosen my beliefs and no power has told me or verified my belief, unless it is my own power.
We do have that power within us all.
I do not need to be told everything. I learn things from experiences (which is the best teacher ) and create opinions that are personal to me. I verify things to myself , as we all do, by living and learning.
I can chose to believe in pointless suffering or I can chose to believe that life is not without purpose, I can chose to believe in the mysteries and magic of continued life before and after death

on 911 did all those people who died want it?

'Forgive them for they know not what they do'.
No way!

Amanda
We're still taking about *people* and them wanting to die or not.
and I'm trying to say as softly as possible that it is not the conscious decision of a living person, but a choice made before we enter a body. A choice we make as a soul.
No person wants to die, but it is a fact that we all will die at some point in some manner. I do not find it strange or repugnant at the idea that we choose the manner of our death and the life we will lead before we are born.
It isn't as if, not making a choice we would live forever as the same person.
The choice is not, shall I die or shall I live forever.
Whether as I believe we chose our destinies before birth, or as you believe that this is all random chaos with no life/continuation after death is up to each individual.
It is very hard to forgive those people who cause great suffering because they are unaware of their actions.
and yet it is the only sensible action to take unless we wish to continue the suffering.

Your ideas confuse me this is all.
Is our soul completely seperate from who we are then? And if so how does a soul have the right to choiose when and how a person will die.?

I will never accept any justification that you offer for the actions of those evil individuals of 911.
(I was going to sware but you would not have liked that either)