h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hello, Insight

Wow! That took some work!

diversity

Beware linear logic. ++You and I are alike -> I exist -> you exist++ is clearly a fallacy. And as to rest of your last paragraph, Christianity isn't ruined by the GOE being realised as a symbol or a myth, as much as I'd like it to be. Christianity, recently, has taken a tactic from the Left (or vice versa), and spread out into hundreds of different groups, so that even if one is attacked, the others survive - the same applies to their basic ideals and theology and permeates the entire thing. The only good thing about Christianity is that it isn't based on one refined, simple idea - and even the Christ bit isn't based on him atoning for the GOE.

- M "Perhaps if we looked small enough, we'd find a disclaimer on behalf of God - or perhaps that is religion" 3

>>Math, your example of veggie-consumation is well and good, but what about something beyond what man decides is right? God laid down laws of right and wrong; these are not something you and I can change. They are rooted deep inside our souls, as that little voice that tells us, 'No, that isn't right.' <<

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Reincarnationalist viewpoint...

Are, but you see, that little voice isn't god, it's the accumulated experiences and realisations of the past lives we have lived. LOL.
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>>There must be a good and a evil. Otherwise, there would be no consequence. I could murder and do no wrong, and, if there is no good, or evil, would not feel guilt, or sorrow.<<

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Reincarnationalist viewpoint...

Only if you were a very, very new spirit, and had learnt nothing yet.
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>>No one would care, because there is no reason to care.<<

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Reincarnationalist viewpoint...

I would care. Because I am not a very, very new spirit, and I have a hel of a lot of accumulated experiences and realisations tucked deep into my inner self. I would care, and I would try give you the pointers you would need to understand how to put yourself into the shoes of those you had hurt.
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>>See what I'm getting at? It's like the space between molecules. It exists, but it is not thought about, and in the end, it determines a lot. Evil exists as surely as shadow and light.<<
__

Reincarnationalist viewpoint...

I see what you are getting at. But I don't see it your way. 'It' is not at all like the space between molecules. How you react and behave is the main part of what everyone thinks about. And is, much of the time, as Math has pointed out, just as relative as is the shadow and light of your example...

Jez - the re-incarnated witch, heathen and pagan, and general bolshie git.

PS There is a thread, quite a short one, on my home page about reincarnation in pagan belief, as seen from my viewpoint. it was written a while ago, and is not as rigorously argued as I would do nowadays, but it will do if you are interested.

Perhaps it may not be ruined, but it is still important. We can see that sin exists today, so it must have started somewhere. But all the same, GoE is what is believed to be the first instance.

Mystrunner

>> For the longest time, every time I try to post to this tread, or one with the same general content, something goes wrong with the computer I'm at. First it was the post wouldn't load, so I had to re-write it... then, my net connection failed... this time, the computer started opening many, many IE windows... I hate these sort of co-incidences. And it's a brand-new computer, too.
Anyone know why? I'm having to save my posts before I hit the button for fear of losing a good thought, now... aggrivating.<<
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Hmm... let's think...

Trickster doesn't like you very much?

Try mead - Loki likes mead, especially spiced mead - cumbrae is good...

ROFLOL

Jez, the witch, heathen, pagan and general bolshie git.

Sin's always been around, just as Good has. How can you have a beginning for something that doesn't exist, at least in the collective sense? God's about as individual as individual can get, I reckon. Did he necessarily have a beginning? What about time?

Surely the concepts of both'Sin' and'Good' have only been around as long as people have felt the need for them? Which makes them mutable so, like evolution, don't relly have a beginning or end. Ditto God, ditto Time.

-Chaiwallah
Something cannot be finite and infinite at the same time. Infinity, as applied to the universe, means that it extends into perpetuity; the fact that it once didn't dosen't mean that it isn't infinite. I don't see what dark matter has to do with anthing. Subatomic partcles are subatomic particles. If nothing's solid how do you hit the keys on your keyboard?

-Insight
Where is outside the universe?

time cannnot have been around since the "begining"
as time is a man mde consept so it has only been around for as long as man has needed it

Dear God, re 9808,

Of course things can't be finite and infinite at the same time, I was trying to underline the paradoxical nature of cosmological reality.

Dark matter has everything to do with the fact that current thinking says our universe will not collapse back into another singularity.

Of course things seem solid, or how indeed could I hit the keys on this computer. The point is that the solidity is a mystery we take for granted, a localisation of the same effect one gets when trying to make two similar magnetic poles meet.

"Mystery??" I hear you ask. The mystery that the emptiest expanse of all space, proportionally, is the space between the nucleus of an atom and its electron cloud, often compared with a grain of salt in the centre of a football pitch.

i.e. These seemingly solid fingers and this seemingly solid keyboard are at one level emptier that the seemingly empty air around them.

What's all this got to do with anything? Not much. But it's fun to think about.

Jez -

EXACTLY! Though, the name I'd know him by would be more like Wormwood, and less trickster. They don't usually like people hearing what I often try to say...

I couldn't let this one pass.

<>


The most charitable excuse I can think of for this is that it isn't a very good analogy. Are you trying to say that God's decisions as to what is right and wrong are arbitrary? If so, why should we give them any credence? If not, what are they based on? *Your* decision as to what your software does are not made in a vacuum, and the design doesn't advise your computer what to do - it absolutely determines what it does. So why does God choose some particular purpose when all purposes are possible? Is THAT arbitrary? And if not, what is it?

Noggin

Alji. OK, I'll try again. There's nothing beyond space, not even custard. If I said 'more space' that would be silly, because that would be part of space. There is no more a 'beyond space' than there is a 'before time'.

"... how did the big bang happen if there was no time." Time and the big bang began together. It was brought into existence by God who is eternal and independent of time.

Time can only have been brought about by nothing, or something that is independent of time.

-Chaiwallah
The reaction of tow similar magnetic poles attempting to be met is the repelling of either magnet; i.e., asof your anology, every solid object in the universe shouldn't be solid but repelling itself from anyother molecule that would previously be considered solid.

There is more matter in your seemingly solid keyboard than a section of the air around it with equal area.

Insight. A brave post indeed, but individual replies are easier to handle.

<
Why not? When I design and create a piece of software etc., I certainly consider that I have the right to determine what it should and shouldn't do.>

God, however, is constrained by the fact that He is perfectly good. You could write a virus, but God isn't in a position to do the equivalent! The existence of viruses in the real world isn't a counterexample to this.

God also has to balance everything He creates. Everything affects everything else. A programmer's nightmare! Some of what we observe is God's answer to this problem. You can write independent modules in a nice structure. God has to allow for every possibility.

Incidentally, that is why He can see *possible* futures and prevent some of them, which is my response to this:

or fails to! No, I would say that a Christian is a follower of the Christian religion. I think it probably takes the famous 'two or three gathered together', rather than someone passing the salt when requested to by Jesus!

Hi Insight:



Sorry, I didn't think it was necessary to explain that whole theory, the conversation being "God: Fact or Fiction"....
I could stay up until all hours of the night and ramble on and on if you like....(please don't that that as an insult to your post....I thought it was very well written).

I'm interested in the scientific studies of the Universe i.e. the Big Bang, expanding universe, and also the positions of the planets and the moons and their effect on all animal and human life on earth (including sea life)
I believe in the concept that all "life" started in the sea...and evolved onto land, and through millions of years evolved to what it is today......

I will state that I don't believe in Adam & Eve, the first "oh so perfect" humans on earth....with God giving them the choice...while dangling temptation in front of them....
I don't believe the Universe was created by God, if it were, then why did he wait so long to "create" us humans? Maybe he was senile by that time...(That whole Adam & Eve thing)....
I don't believe in "organized" religion.....Religion, whatever it is to you, should be private to one's self...It does not need to be outwardly displayed...(maybe then there would be no "Religious Wars")

Bottom Line: If you believe in "Scientific Studies and Evolution then you don't believe in the "God created the Universe" theory, "Adam & Eve" and all the rest that follows...it would be a contradiction...enough said.... Still chewing....Barb

P.S.
I "pray" (to the neverending universe) every night that there will be a tomorrow. I "pray" every morning my family & friends will stay safe and healthy as life goes on...."Life" is what it's all about...we are alive. We don't know if we will be here tomorrow.

With that said, I will say "good night".

I'm inclined to agree with Toxx here. No one can live up to Christianity's goals completly, no matter how hard we try. We aren't perfect. But as I usually argue with myself, it doesn't mean we should stop trying.

However, it is completly up to God to decide what is right and wrong. I feel He did a very good job. If people would just listen to His commandments nowadays, things would be much, much better. Less corruption, crime, murder, and so on.

In the same way a concerned parent tells a child not to touch a hot stove, God tells us what not to do. We can still touch the stove, and we do often enough I'm suprised we still have our metaphorical fingers, but instead of placing the blame on ourselves, we put it squarely on the one who warned us not to touch it. Makes no sense, you know?

>>Prev post : Mystrunner, even Jews believe the Garden of Eden is a myth!!!)

That's not true.
In fact, to believe that would make a mockery of the whole Christian belief system, because it's all based on Christ's atoning for that original sin in the Garden of Eden.
If Adam and Eve were a myth -> no original sin -> sin existed in the first place -> God created sin -> God wanted sin to exist -> God didn't send Jesus to atone for sin -> Christianity is pointless.<<
Insight, I am a Christian, and I believe the Garden of Eden is a myth - a myth in the literary sense - it's a way of stating how/why a state of affairs came about - it isn't literally true, but it's still *true* ... I hope you understand what I mean! Sin obviously exists - and the Garden of Eden is a 'just so' story to explain its origin, a rather unsatisfying one...

Anthea, I disagree! Time is not a 'man' made (human) concept - what is time if it is not real?