h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

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Though we have seen that communism doesn't work well on a large scale (in countries like China and the former USSR), it has been seen to work quite effectively on collective farms around the world and the Israeli kibbutzim. The key difficulty with implementing communism on a large scale is that this guarantees that many of the participants in the scheme will be involuntary. Communism must be essentially embraced by the people living under it, so that they will be willing to give up their 'stuff' for the common good and work 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.'

emr, China is doing very well on communism! They've cornered the market on cement.

alji

What I meant by 'doesn't work well' is that on a national scale communism invariably ends up as not the idealistic, cooperative system of existence its fans thought it would be, but rather a regime that requires totalitarian control to properly succeed. It would be pretty difficult to run an entire country on Marxist principles.

Admittedly, though, China has improved rather well. I actually don't know very much at all about Chinese history, but it seems to have changed considerably since the Cultural Revolution days.

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>>Oh yes, all those Christian and Jewish suicide bombers-why they're in the news every day. [BURP!]<<

Northern Ireland - Christian religious/political wars supported by Christians especially from the USA.

Palestine, where the indigenous peoples are being destroyed culturally and politically by a Jewish religious/political regime which has no place for them, supported by Christians especially from the USA.

>>the God Police will lock your family away forever so they can't continue to corrupt the truth. [BUUURRRRRRPP!!!]<<

Christian social workers in Scotland (1) and London (2) who (1) took children away from pagan parents after accusations from Christian churches that ritual 'satanic' abuse was being carried on - all allegations were subsequently found to be complete fabrications - and (2) failed to protect children from fatal ritual abuse by their Christian church members and step-parents despite being repeatedly called to the homes of these children, and who admitted that they believed that children could be possessed by devils...

>>Which planet are you from, anyway?<<

One closer to Earth than you are, it seems...

Jez

Communism is religious in that it is based on the assumption that certain theories on sociology and the predability of history are absolutely true and unquestionable.

Socialism is not communism--socialist economic ideas are seperable from the religious concepts essential in communism; communism can work in small groups if everyone agrees to it just as theocracy works in small groups if everyone agrees (i.e. monastaries). Neither works if you force it on people.

You KCA isn't rational as it requires a couple leaps of faith that are only logical from the standpoint of someone who expects a creator.

And two feet--my bathroom isn't big enough to try for more.

So Christians in the USA are supporting the Jews in Isreal to destroy Palestine? You really need a history lesson and I'm not in the mood to play teacher for long. Palestine does not exist today and the ancient Palestine covered a huge area that extended FAR outside current Isreali borders-why you're not whining about how badly the people in the west bank and Gaza were ignored by their own former country is a mystery. There were and are still "indigenous" people living in the area that became recognized as Isreal in 1948 at which time the west bank and Gaza were NOT made part of Isreal [by a British mandate]. Isreal overtook those areas when they were attacked and never forced the "indigenous" people out. They couldn't, the former countries didn't want them. Where do you think many people in Gaza came from? Try Jordan, who politely kicked them out. Isreal tried to allow workers to enter their country to work and what did that accomplish? It got Isrealis killed. What the Isrealis object to is the attacks from those areas that were ignored by the controlling powers in those areas. They're still ignored by the present "leader". They're damn lucky the USA keeps Isreali Defense forces in check more often than not, otherwise IDF would have launched a full scale attack many years ago.

So please, what are these leaps of faith? I suspect I can guess, but wouldn't the contrary be equally so? We can always remain undecided - but I prefer to follow all leads, at least tentatively.

Hey, good to be right back on target/topic.

toxx

It IS Thursday, 1:37 AM Eastern Daylight Savings Time. I knew it HAD to be Thursday.

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Think you maybe need a history lesson, too, Dr J.

There never was an ancient Palestine. The name is derived from Philistia, a confederation of cities not much larger than the Gaza strip. Nor was there ever anything like an "Ancient Israel" as Jews and Christians like to think of it.

The "Palestinian people" do now exist - they are those non-Jewish people who live, or lived, in the area now occupied by Israel, and it's their common disposession that has created their specific identity.

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Actually the West Bank and Gaza were taken over in the six day war which was initiated by Israel. They haven't, on the whole, been able to expel the indigenous people out of the West Bank and Gaza, but they are now confined to about 20% of their former territory, and the majority are effectively refugees from the other 80%.

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See above. Those who were kicked out by Jordan were not from Jordan, but had recently arrived after fleeing the Israelis.

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What controlling powers? Israel is the controlling power in those areas. Do you seriously think that the Israelis would allow the Jordanian/Syrian/Egyptian security forces into Gaza and the West Bank to control terrorism?

Noggin

Hi DrJ

This is a drive-by posting so you might want to duck

"Oh yes, all those Christian and Jewish suicide bombers-why they're in the news every day."

Christian and Jewish bombers tend to use F14?thread="smiley - ok" title="ok" class="smiley" src="http://www.h2g2.com/h2g2/skins/Alabaster/images/Smilies/f_ok.gif"/>.

"Yeah, especially those Hasidic Jews, those Seventh Day Adventists and the Protestants-they are all butcher-happy when you don't fly by their rules. Boy, oh boy, you just say one wrong thing on the Sabbath and Shlomo is after you with a machete like white on rice. And don't get under Patrick's skin about which conception was the immaculate one, he'll lop off your head in a heartbeat, and THEN the God Police will lock your family away forever so they can't continue to corrupt the truth."

Oh boy where do I start? Jez has already done the Satanic Abuse and Christian Ritual Murder bits so let's go somewhere else...
1. The increasing incidence of drive-by church shootings between evangelical christian groups in the USA.
2. Extremist Christians leading death squads in Rwanda.
3. Christian terror bombings against isolated muslim families in both Nigeria and The Phillipines.
4. The mass murder of millions of Catholics by the insistance on doctrinal truth and subsequent deliberate misinformation by their own church hierarchy regarding HiV/AIDs.

The spiritual paths Jez and I follow do not direct people to maim and murder in order to maintain conformance to social norms that are 4,000 years out of date. Those of the abrahamic faiths do, and increasing numbers of their adherents seem to be taking up arms to enforce them.

Touche?

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\

Why can't everyone just accept that everyone is entitled to their own view?

Because some people live in turmoil and want to cause it in the world around them. Not just with posts like this but this is a semi-good try.

'Why can't everyone just accept that everyone is entitled to their own view?'

Everyone can have their own view as long as it doesn't affect the rights and views of others! The main problem is the imposition of thier views on others; e.g. So called 'Right to life' activists bombing abortion clinics. Animal rights activists and any other groups you can think of.

Quote from the 'United Nations Information System on the Question of Palestine, Mid-Year Review of the Humanitarian Appeal 2005 for Occupied Palestinian Territory' @ http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/cf02d057b04d356385256ddb006dc02f/656472c2022e105d85257028004f9d47!OpenDocument

'Four years ago, poverty affected one in five Palestinians. Today, almost half the population lives in poverty, as incomes have fallen and Palestinians' assets have been exhausted. Living conditions have been further eroded by the substantial decline in the quality of health and education services and the inability of Palestinians to access them. Approximately 3,496 Palestinians and 1,044 Israelis have been killed since the conflict began in September 2000. The experience of continual fear and violence will have a lasting effect on both populations'


alji

'There never was an ancient Palestine. The name is derived from Philistia.'
That depends on what you call ancient, Nogg!
Quotes from http://www.religioustolerance.org/name_mide.htm
'According to Thomas McCall(Zola Levitt Ministries), the name "Palestine" was not used until the early second century CE.'

From the Christian Classics Ethereal Library,
'After Bar Kochba's unsuccessful second Jewish revolt against Rome in 135 CE, Emperor Hadrian ordered that all Jews be exiled from the Holy Land. "He took the name of the ancient enemies of Israel, the Philistines, Latinized it to Palestine, and applied it to the Land of Israel. He hoped to erase the name Israel from all memory." '

According to author Darrell G. Young(Bible Prophecy Ministry), "there has never been a State of Palestine."

The Hebrew name for the Philistines is 'Pelesheth'.

Two of the three sources agree that the term "Palestine" has been in use for over 1,860 years.

alji

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I was responding to this from Dr J, Alji

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Because of the context, I can only assume that Dr J was talking about the Solomonic empire, which was not Palestine, and may never have existed at all.

Noggin

Three days without anyone posting! God is dead!



alji

That's cause I killed him.

You can't kill an idea!



Actually, could you kill the invisible pink unicorn in my garden?

It's Lemon's turn. She still hasn't answered my question about the KCA.

toxx

Surely, for something to be both 'invisible' and 'pink' is a contradiction! I'll allow 'unicorn' because it could be recognised as that by other than the sense of sight.

toxx