h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hoochie Mama?

Now the fashion magazines, they are the ones to blame. My 13 year old niece has a pile of them (sitting not more than 4 feet from my right elbow) and they are trash. I would never expect thought provoking articles from a teen-fashion magazine, but these things are product placement after product placement, entirely geared towards the mindset that shopping will make you happy and these products will make you well liked. There is absolutley no distinction between the advertisements and the articles, at least not content-wise (the advertisements do have a the word "advertisement" printed in tiny letters above them, as if it mattered). And what are the fashions they are displaying? Kinderslut. And we can blame MTV too - I think it was Frontline that had a documentary on how MTV has created a feedback loop, displaying the outrageous behavior of some teens, causing teens to act more like what they see on MTV, causing MTV to display more of the ratings-getting behavior of some teens, causing the teens to... etc.

Personally I reckon fashion went downhill when you started being able to see people's ankles.
Actually, I do have to agree with Marv et al. I find little kiddies in this sort of lack of clothing well disturbing. Almost as bad as that advert for the Barbie kareoke machine which has pre-teens singing some well dodgy lyrics.

[LIL] just trying to keep up

Today is a semi-big game for gaming. The sequel to one of the best fighting games ever comes out today and I will be traveling to Rutland later this evening to pick up my very own copy of Soul Calibur II

[Hyp] tv star

I was on tv twice this week about our moving schedule. Last night there was a taped piece on one channel. This morning I did one of the early morning shows on another channel. I had to be there at 5:15. They worked me in between the second weather report and the hog futures. The regular anchor is a tiny little thing who is way too perky for that time of day. Whatever she's on, I'd like some of it.

Oooo... autograph! Autograph! *hands H. pen and paper*

Nice graphic on today's front page, Amy! *itch, itch, scratch, scratch*

*scratches* Can you catch fleas from a picture?

Back to the provocative clothing debate.

In post 836, MR said, 'There's something wrong with a 10 year-old girl wearing provocative clothing' and I agree but where I disagree is in what constitutes 'provocative.' In my opinion, a crop top on a little girl should not provoke a sexual reaction in an adult. Nor should it be assumed that a girl choosing to wear a crop top is making a sexual statement. We should not legitimise the paedophile's point of view by allowing him the 'she was asking for it' defence so common in rape case thirty years ago.

In a previous lifetime I was a teacher who specialised in the mad bad and sad. To support one of my pupils, I accompanied her to a trial of her grandfather. He was accused of incest against my pupil and several other female and male children in his family. Distressing forensic evidence relating to a four year-old girl was presented and his defence was that she had flaunted herself by pulling her dress up to reveal her belly. Now, four year-olds don't flaunt themselves and it's my contention here that right up to puberty girls do not have sexual intentions when they wear what adults consider to be 'revealing' clothing. Their motivation is merely to be like their friends, not to attract sexual attention from adults.

So what I'm saying is that when we assign a sexual meaning to a crop top we do so with an adult mind. The problem resides with the adults and no fault can be attached to the child.

However, it would be wrong to say that crop tops etc are ok to wear everywhere. As we move to adulthood we learn to dress according to the occasion. Parents who send their daughters to school in crop tops are wrong to do so and not doing their kids any favours.

Contrary to MR's statement of what I believe in post 836, I actually believe that it is wrong for adults to sexualise children. What I'm saying is that a crop top, in an appropriate place and given the right weather, is not inherently sexual. But writing 'Sexy Chick' in sparkly letters across the top is. Designers and manufacturers are wrong to make such products. Parents are wrong to buy them. But if kids are given them they can hardly be blamed for wearing them.

It's also quite common for mothers to tell their little girls that they look sexy whereas in a previous age they would have said their daughters looked pretty. I think that's wrong too.

I have young nieces and they all like fashion. I wouldn't dream of telling them not to wear a particular item but I do stand them in front of the mirror and discuss the suitability of their outfits with them. The biggest problem I have is that they are more interested in fashion than in their own comfort. A crop top is not the best choice for a cycle ride along the Devon coast in February. I'm not kidding.

So, to summarise, I think there is a danger of seeing certain types of clothing on young girls to be sexy just because they would be if they were on older girls but this isn't a logical viewpoint. On the other hand, deliberately setting out as adults to sexualise children's clothing is wrong and reacting to children sexually - however they are dressed or, indeed, undressed - is very wrong but the crop top is not inherently wrong.

I like the word 'kinderslut'. Did you invent it, FG?

I first heard 'kinderslut' several years ago from my friend Krispen. Where she got it I don't know, but I certainly like it! Everyone has my permission to spread it around. I only found out what a hoochie mama is a few years ago...

(For those who don't know a hoochie mama is a female who wears very revealing skin-tight clothing, loads and loads of makeup, has her hair styled up to *there* and her fingernails long and out to *there* and acts like a tramp in order to attact men. Yes, its sexist and yes, its stupid. I first heard it when watching the movie "Friday" with Ice Cube. It is featured in a rap song in the movie--the lyrics go something like "ain't nuthin' but a hoochie mama, ain't nuthin' but a hoochie mama, etc. etc."--that plays when one of the female characters is on screen. She's the aforementioned hoochie mama.)

[boots]

Let me clarify there that I wasn't watching the movie *with* Ice Cube. Ice Cube was *in* the movie.

That would have been a story to tell, FG & Ice Cube go to the movies

Amy, I never said anything about what you believe. And I agree with you that there is nothing inherently sexual about a prepubescent girl in a crop top. I remember taking t-shirts and pullng the bottom through the top, in an effort to keep cool. Thre is nothing wrong with that in any way, shape or form, nor is there anything wrong with my daughter running around without a shirt on, as far as I'm concerned.

What bothers me is exactly what bothers you, that someone has written "Sexy!" or "Hot Stuff" across it, or put a Hefner bunny on it. It's not the girls themselves being sexual, but adults sexualizing children. But advertisers have created advertising that shows these girls that way...as sex objects. I even cancelled my subscription to a parenting magazine a couple of years ago, because they were talking about children's swimwear, and showed a 2 year old in a bikini with the tag line "tot mama." I was appalled.

If a man says that a 4 year old was provocative because she showed her tummy, that's sick, twisted, and wrong, not to mention criminal. But do we need to give men like him any more ammunition? Do we really want to let them think they are right?

How about when these young children get older, to them they have always dressed one way and its ok, but in their teens its wrong or to sexy or what have you. A friend of mine was on new zealand a while a go and they were marketing padded bras for 8 year olds. Is this giving kids certain ideas about body image that at that age they need padding to enhance body parts? Is this going to lead to plastic surgery at a younger age? Sorry went a bit off topic there.

It might have been a bit off topic, but it is true none the less. I have recently read a report about girls as young as 14 getting implants and other cosmetic surgeries.

There is also a a real problem with the way that makeup is marketed to young girls. When i worked at a drug store, I would see girls spending tons of cash on makeup that they simply did not need.

{[caer]} getting ready for the hooto girls' meet-up.

I have seen the older girls that Life is talking about.

Having gone back to college, I see the late teens early 20's. It is amazing to me that a white cotton t-shirt with no bra, and low jeans with the g-string obviously showing are okay.

Whatever happened to leaving something to the imagination?

Courtesy

I have to admit I think that this is an fuss over nothing to be honest. I don't have children, but I'm sure that being the one child who wasn't allowed to do what all their friends did would do more damage in the long run, than whatever the majority of children do.

Women in hot countries wear less clothes than women in cold countries but the men in both countries still have the same amount of interest in women. In short a peadofile will still have an interest in children whatever they are wearing. In fact I'm sure considering that thet are arosed by sex with children they would consider it more arosing if they child looked youngher than they were.

Many normal men have a think about women in school uniform, in fact when we left school most of my friends kept their school uniforms to wear in bed with their boyfriends. I would think that fetish for school uniform would also be true about peadofiles.

Girls of ten or eleven who do this are messing around, they are playing at being grown up, that's all. They don't think that they might attract unwanted attention. I'd feel more worried about dressed a child in school uniform than dressed up.

I also believe that, unless their is abuse, making judgements about other people's childrearing is wrong for a doctor, so I try to not do outside of work. They are coming from a different background so would have interpreted things differently.

I remember being a teenager, the most important thing in teh world was what your friends did, and having friends. I think a child who is bullied because they weren't allowed to wear the clothes that their friends wear would be far more damaged than one who was allowed to.

As for drinking, I started drinking at the age of 13, and once my parents were divorced and didn't really have a curfew, as did most of the children my age. No I don't think it did me any harm, if anything else it helped. It taught me how to drink sensibly before I left home, which meant I knew how to balance drink and work at university. I've seen so many student who had no idea how to do this, and ended up in hospital with alcohol posioning in their first week at univeristy. After all when you are 13 school isn't really important, your first year of university is.

it's also worth remembering that girls go through puberty earlier these days. The average age is around 8 or 9, and for boys I think it's around 10 or 11. That means that 13 or 14 year olds now do have more sexual desires than other children their age. Which means that they are more emotionally mature through experience.

Z, I'll go with you up to that last point. While biology may have sped up, there is *no* way I will accept a 12 year old girl being sexually active as normal, or even healthy. The body may be mature, but the mind isn't.

Oh, and Marv, found the source of the virus. Another history grad student has it, and because we are all on a list-serv, I got the emails. Good thing I make it a practice to delete anything that comes from a source I don't expect!

EEk I certainly didn't want to make the point that it is normal for thirteen year olds to be having sex. The fact is though that they do have hormones that give them strange feelings.

That doesn't mean that they do have sex or indeed that it's normal or healthy for them to do so. Most of them don't. The average age for loosing virginity seems to be around 17 these days. But it doesn't stop them thinking about it in the in between bit.