h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

All I can say, is live and let live. I don't care what banner anyone flies, I like them for who they are, not what they are.

MoonGirl

*round of applause*

what has happened? well, nowt. That is the problem.
I am not as outgoing in real life.

Most people find alcohol solves that problem, but personally I'm just outgoing because it's more fun. Not just talking about filth-obtainment. Why do you think it is you aren't outgoing? *pats virtual psychiatrists couch and starts fare metre going*

Even that is a problem! I only like obscure drinks. O, the shame... (tho I can down girlie drinks to be sociable, it's still not my drug of choice.)

I have trouble talking about trivial, pointless things. I can't sit about and have a conversation about, say, pets, without worrying that I am very boring, or being bored by the nice normal people and their nice normal conversation. I will throw in a comment about how one of them ought to be working on a cruise ship, or something else that seems relevent to me, but nobody gets. Of course, those who I already know would get it but none of them want to get cosy with me. ('Cept one. I need one for the other arm.) I wander about thinking how interesting and scarily fascinating I can be, the wondrous things I can do, how everyone would be surprised... and then go somewhere and say nothing at all. I apparantly also look miserable when I am not doing anything (actually deep in thought).
I have many interests but cannot meet people thru them (not just out of disinclination, sometimes groups do not exist.) I generally meet new folk thru my drama group, where at least I can be relaxed- just that when I get in a group where no one is a proper friend, I behave like some sort of shy clam.

Sybil Fawlty? Shepherd? Never mind, that's beside the point...

I do see your problem. Well, not the drinking one, I'm teetotal, but the conversation one, definitely. I think I've just resolved myself to being terminally silly - not the ideal solution, but it's more fun than nothing. Also fits well with being a student...

Sybil, the multiple personality film subject.

I am a student also. But! this is not the opportunity I imagined since I don't live in (too many difficulties) and so am not actually there often, and never socially.
So I live thru the internet, hoping that some RL denizens will discover me on here and encourage me to be like it outside.

Right,the problem is this - for me

My mates are all straight and it never comes up (untill some months ago when 1 of them turned out to be not that straight but that`s a big regret not a talking point) I`m kinda known as being "sound and bit dodgy" in a jokey way but I never have to justify anything about my sexuality to them - which is cool. (but get `em drunk and they love hugging you and all that!)

They gay friends I have (or had had in the past) have always used this as a political issue that I can take what I want - then run for cover as a hetero. It`s hard `cos some people are happy on the gay scene and I`m not. I`d rather be at a football match. But that`s not about being "blokey" as a smokescreen.

Going back to what I said about 1 of my mates not being as straight as everyone thinks, that`s turned out to be a very hard lesson. We`ve actually fallen for each other but neither of can deal with it within the context of our lives and the larger crew of mates we belong to. So yeah, maybe I am a cop out merchant. I don`t want or need to belong to a community simply to exemplify who I`ve fallen in love with at any given point of my life - but being in love with another bloke who`s just like me within the life I lead is just as hard.

I have a lot to think about basicly.


Guz

Re: Labels:

I'm all for working towards a point where sexual orientation is such a non-issue that we no longer bother with labels. And I do find the label "bisexual" limiting - perhaps "pansexual" would be more appropriate? On the other hand, the human brain wants us to compartmentalise and label so that we can begin to get a handle on what we're looking at/talking about. For example, a person could tell you that they're CofE, a LibDem, straight, white, middle class, a teacher, a birdwatcher, and a volunteer for a local suicide hotline. Those are all labels which allow us to build a very basic concept of what that person's about, but they're only the very beginning - they tell us nothing about this individual's actual religious beliefs and practices, nor much about their politics, not a jot about their sexuality beyond their lack of attraction to others of their biological sex (with, perhaps, an exception for post-operative MtoF transsexuals?), their ethnicity or attitude to ethnicity, their family life or education, the kind of teaching they do and how and why they do it, what kind of birdwatching they do (occasional, obsessive, recreational or part of their teaching), or how and why they crew the hotline and what they get out of it. Saying that you're a married woman with two kids tells people nothing about you, in actual fact, beyond the fact that you're married and have two kids - you could be happily married or utterly miserable; straight, gay, bi, or transgendered; have biological children or adopted children... you get the idea.

So labels effectively tell us very little about ourselves or others, and so are restrictive and sometimes uncomfortable. On the other hand, they are a form of shorthand that allow us to navigate socially, and without which we could not function as social animals, and so labels are necessary. They can also be subverted and challenged and changed by judicious usage, transformed into something other than they were, which can be a fascinating activity in and of itself.

So my way of looking at it is to use the labels, participate in subverting them wherever I feel it's necessary, and hope that my behaviour will help in some small way to move us to a point where our culture can actually deal with sex and sexuality like real live grown-ups

Re: Problem with being bi:

I know that there are plenty of bisexual people who do get to jonesing for one when they've had the other. I also know many bisexual people who are in long-term relationships (including marriages), who aren't troubled by it. Heterosexual people tend to a version of the same thing - once the "honeymoon" period's over, they start noticing other people again. As someone who's been in a monogamous relationship for some years, I find myself still attracted to others. But it isn't a problem for me - I can look at the menu, but I have chosen my dish (and fortunately, my dish still tastes damn good).

That said, if you are having a truly serious problem with your yen for both, have you considered the option of a polyamourous relationship? Having loving relationships with more than one person is not exactly smiled upon in our culture, but for people who feel it's right for them and are prepared to put in the work (getting over jealousy, working out ground rules, etc.) it can be a very viable option. I know several people who are in different types of poyamourous relationships, from the stable to the open. http://bi.org/db/poly.html is a directory of polyamoury-related sites. 'The Ethical Slut' by Dossie Easton and Catherine A Lizt (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1890159018/qid%3D1045975614/202-2232670-2464629) is a wonderful resource (actually, it contains information on relationship problem-solving that monogamous people would benefit from, too).

Anyway, that's my thoughts, such as they are

Re: Heterosexual privilege:

I remember being quite shocked when a lesbian I had previously been getting along with famously practically spat at me "It's alright for you - you always have heterosexual privilege!"

She was partly right and partly very wrong. When you're with a member of the other sex (or someone who appears to be), people tend to assume you're straight and treat you perfectly normally. When you're with someone of the same sex, they assume you're gay and treat you according to their attitude to gayness. If you settle down permanently with a partner, the assumption will be either that you really were gay all along, or you really were just dabbling and were a heterosexual all along. So she was right that as long as I partner with a man, people will assume my heterosexuality and I can allow them to. For someone who is permanently visible as gay or lesbian (especially when they fit the stereotypes), it must be galling. From their perspective, it must feel like bisexuals take advantage of the gay and lesbian communities when they want to, but can always "change sides" if things get rough.

On the other hand, being bi doesn't stop you getting harrassed when you're with a same-sex partner, and it doesn't stop you being Queer (Mods - I use this as shorthand for lesbian/gay/bisexual/intersex/transgendered/transvestite/and or other non-heterosexual or non-mainstream sexualities which is in common usage here amongst the lesbian/gay/bisexual/intersex/transgendered/transvestite and or other non-heterosexual or non-mainstream sexualities communities in the USA and increasingly in the UK - absolutely NOT as a derogatory term. Having seen the alternative, you have to admit it is both apt and blessedly short!). And as more people become visible as bisexual, it challenges peoples' views of sexuality. In that sense, of being openly bi, she was very wrong.

Add to that the fact that many self-identified lesbians and gay men also have sex with members of the other sex (often very much on the quiet), and it becomes clear that all of the bi-baiting is based on the fear of losing the communities that have fought hard for lesbian and gay visibility and acceptance - and that quite a bit of that fear is based on discomfort with such rigid boundaries. Paula Rust's 'Bisexuality and the Challenge to Lesbian Politics' (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0814774458/qid=1045976912/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_0_1/202-2232670-2464629) is a really great book on this. So I try to be as compassionate as I can when someone makes the accusation of heterosexual privilege against bisexuals. But I still don't accept it.

And lots of us don't fit the stereotypes. I know a large number of gay and bi people, and the majority of them dislike "the scene" - it seems that "the gay scene" revolves around clubs, which is fine if you *like* clubs - lots of us don't. In fact, most of the Queer people I know haven't been to a club in years or go only occasionally. In a straight world, it is comforting to have others who share your sexual orientation to lean on, but there are plenty of ways to go about that rather than "the scene" - though sexual orientation isn't a basis for friendship, there are often bisexual groups in larger towns that can be a starting place for meeting bi people who might also share your interests and be worthwhile adding to your list of friends. Friends plus support in the sexuality arena. Bonus.

Hi WebWitch. Do stick around and keep giving input!

My knowledge of bisexuality is limited to a freind or two, so I have no basis to comment on most of the above. One of them is perfectly happy with the label, but not at all happy with the stereotypical view society takes, to the point of hiding it from some of his less close aquaintances. Until I talked to him about it, It had never occured to me that biphobia was a serious issue - I guess it doesn't occur to most people until it's relevant. I think in some ways it must be worse than homophobia, since it goes largely unrecognised by people.

WebWitch.

I am comfortable with using the term (tho' preferably as a comical synonym) however I d'know about society's views. On one hand I'd like people to know, since it's fairly important, however it is not something urgent- for instance if I were 100% gay I would have more of a case to inform family (breeding problems, for instance.)

Do you find people see you as not having made you mind up, or being greedy for example? (Just asking to try and get more of a feel for hopw widespread the problem is).

I found the hardest thing was realising in the first place that I'm bi. I came out and then came in again... and then came out again and I don't quite think people knew what to make of it. I guess the confusion really lay in the natural desire to put a label on myself and fit neatly into a social category. So far as life goes, I don't really fit into many categories - I'm ambidextrous, agnostic, a vegetarian only when it suits me, and am going to study Maths and Philosophy at uni(an extremely objective science and an extremely subjective art)!

There are some who think there's no such thing as bisexuality and that I'm just completely indecisive. Some people even believe that it just means I'm particularly "easy" which I guess equates to the greediness theory. Just because I'm bi, it doesn't mean that I fancy twice the amount of people as straights or gays, it just means I have more to choose between and therefore, if anything, can afford to be more fussy and less "easy".

Hurrah! confound the categories...

I would see it as, liking a wider range of stuff rather than indecisiveness. I don't like how in general life you have to prefer something, can't like both equally.
I got so far thinking, 'OK, men, fine by me,' then sort of twigged that I was noticing both... it just seemed like another addition to the 'Good' list. Like discovering you like a particular group or food (except harder to put into practice.)

I don't get the 'greedy' thing either... if someone likes girls with various hair colours, there is no problem. Same (basic) thing; wider pool of applicants.

I half-think if I let everyone know and 'lived' out&out, it would be easier to find potential partners. However I am not much into any of the things that would entail (i.e. meeting someone, extending hand and going "Good morning! I'm hotel-motel," or similar. Which is like, "Hi! I'm a born-again Christian." or "Hello there; I like country music." For a start, what do you *say* to something like that? ) and am not particularly sociable either. There were indications of interest amongst my circle of regular friends once I let them know, but nothing concrete which was most disappointing, I only really *like* those I already have a friendship with.
Then there is the half-feeling that it's not important enough to tell many people.

Country music? Don't be disgusting!

Just kidding...

I think the extending hands and telling people straight away is probably not a good idea, but I wouldn't keep quiet say, if someone used the incorrect gender pronoun, or indeed noun. Unless the person is drunk and swearing a lot, then I keep quiet.

I suppose I fit into the bi-sexual category who ius settling into a long term relationship of a hetero-sexual nature. I'm quite lucky in a way with my choice of partner who is quite secure with the fact that I have been with men, and dispite have fears that because she did not have a penis I would never be fully satified sexually by her. I hope those fears have now subsided, however there are occasions that she still sufferes little niggles especially when my ex-boyfriend is mentioned in the papers. I also fit into the Liberal Democrat bracket but then a large number of lesbigay people do feel at home with the party because the policies do support and encompass them.

As for Country Music I'm with Cupid .

I am currently seeing a guy, and he is ok about it, think he finds a bit of a novelty ie watching TV and Mel C comes on and i am saying wow doesnt she look great etc and he agrees! He has never asked any personal stuff except once and i told him, how would he feel if i told someone else about our private relationship and he never mentioned it again. But in my opinion that applies whatever type of relationship you are in.

I think the girls i have seen have found it harder to accept that i date guys.

Mort

Most of the guys I know think it's quite fabulous, but my ex had a real problem with it. He felt really threatened by my best friend! Me and her had snogged several times at parties so I suppose he had an excuse. He was an extremely camp chap and very defensive about his own sexuality - I know a load of camp straight guys who don't have a problem when people point out their campness but he got really angry, even though he knew I love campness! When we broke up he told someone that it was because I'd been pulling girls right in front of him, which wasn't true. I guess some people just aren't open minded enough about sexuality - I would never cheat on anyone, male or female. Bisexuality is no excuse for promiscuity. Most of my male friends seem to find it very novel when I go on about girls and I certainly wouldn't mind a bi boyfriend!

I vote Liberal Democrat as well!