h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: The Fosse Way: - A Journey - A24778704
Author: Bob Stafford. ACE (Keeper of The Treacle Shadow) - U3151547

Part 2 this. I plan to wander dow as many Roman roads as I can...

Please comment

marks this to read at weekend (I use the Fosse as my preferred route to travel from Salisbury to Leicester)

Hi Big Al.
Let me know what you think...
You can confirm the mileages on your part if you like, its not that I dont trust the referances but google map mileage could stand checking.

'' Unlike Watling Street the Fosseway has one clear starting point ''

Does it? I'm no expert on the course of Roman roads, but I was always taught the Fosseway started at Axminster and the road from Exeter was a separate route connecting to Dorchester (Durnovaria), which then linked up to the Portway, going to Silchester.

Also, you would have a job to follow the Fosseway to Camerton out of Shepton Mallet as it doesn't actually go there. It disappears North of Shepton Mallet (you call it Shelton at one point btw) into a field which remains vaguely traceable on a OS Pathfinder map to Oakhill village. Between Oakhill and Nettlebridge though no one knows exactly what course the road took. It's always been assumed that when it got to Nettlebridge hill it followed the original road through the village (which used to be a ford) and across a footpath to the top of the hill on the other side of the valley where it then follows the A37 to Welton, Radstock. It then becomes hard to trace as it continues across Welton Hollow to Clandown (not Camerton) and onward towards Bath. Camerton village is off to the North of the road and while it might well have had a link road to both it and the Wells Rd., I think it's stretching it somewhat to claim the Fosseway actually went through it.
When new houses were built in Peasedown, another Roman village was discovered on the other side of the Fosseway (Eckwick).

Again, when then Fosseway reaches Bath, the exact route across the river is unknown and the road is picked up whenn it goes through Walcot on the A4 London Rd.

As for Camerton being Camelot, I think there's some of that popular West Country sport of 'Tourist Baiting' going on there in the village pub. I think most in the West Country hold with the consensus that Camelot was Cadbury Castle and the Isle of Avalon, Glastonbury.

Hi Raddox.
I thought about you when I started this Raddox wont make this easy, so I had best check.

>>started at Axminster and the road from Exeter was a separate route connecting to Dorchester (Durnovaria), which then linked up to the Portway, going to Silchester.<<
The listed road (NGRef: SX9688) southwest from Exeter is to Topsham and the name is unknown. There is a road west of Exeter (no name given) it seems to follow the A34 and dies out around Caton A43 and A 383 junction.
As for Axminster and the Fosse Way it would havre to follow the A35 from Honiton to Axminster then follow the course of the A 385 to Chard (but road this is marked as uncertain). But why stop at Axminster? The only reason I can come up with was that there was a port on the river Axe, have you got any ideas. By the way the only definite peice of Raman road starts fron just west of kilmington (A35) and runs west towards Wotton Fizpane Dorset.
It looks like this:- http://www.romans-in-britain.org.uk/map_romans_roads_in_britain.htm
The Fosse Way runs north from Ilchester - fact
A road called The Fosse Way runs west from Ilchester - fact
A road un named runs south from Ilchester - fact

A road called The Fosse Way runs west from Honiton towards Exeter- fact
A road called The Fosse Way runs east west through Axminster - fact
A road called The Fosse Way runs north from Axminster - uncertain
A road called The Fosse Way runs east west through Exeter - uncertain But it joins with a road that runs west from Honiton - fact

There was a port at Exmouth better than anything on offer at Axeminster, why would the Fosse Way divert through Axeminster? I do not think so this road is part of the east west route from Badbury via Bridport to Honiton, and the Fosse Way has been wrongly atributed.

Lets get this sorted and the entry agreed Before we move on to:-

>>>Also, you would have a job to follow the Fosseway to Camerton out of Shepton Mallet as it doesn't actually go there. It disappears North of Shepton Mallet (you call it Shelton at one point btw) into a field which remains vaguely traceable on a OS Pathfinder map to Oakhill village. Between Oakhill and Nettlebridge though no one knows exactly what course the road took. It's always been assumed that when it got to Nettlebridge hill it followed the original road through the village (which used to be a ford) and across a footpath to the top of the hill on the other side of the valley where it then follows the A37 to Welton, Radstock. It then becomes hard to trace as it continues across Welton Hollow to Clandown (not Camerton) and onward towards Bath. Camerton village is off to the North of the road and while it might well have had a link road to both it and the Wells Rd., I think it's stretching it somewhat to claim the Fosseway actually went through it.
When new houses were built in Peasedown, another Roman village was discovered on the other side of the Fosseway (Eckwick).<<<

And the Camerton bit

P.S. I hope you agree I do check stuff before I stick it in PR but I always listen to those who have extra information, welcome to the dedate...

Bob...

>>you would have a job to follow the Fosseway to Camerton out of Shepton Mallet as it doesn't actually go there.<<

Its within a mile of the projected route.

>>It disappears North of Shepton Mallet vaguely traceable on a OS Pathfinder map to Oakhill village.<<

Agreed.

>>Between Oakhill and Nettlebridge though no one knows exactly what course the road took.<<

But it would be fair to assume the kinks in the road around Oakhill and Nettlebridge would not have been there. So from the A37 to the Rock Road junction A367 it would have been considerably straighter.

>>It's always been assumed that when it got to Nettlebridge hill it followed the original road through the village (which used to be a ford) and across a footpath to the top of the hill on the other side of the valley where it then follows the A37 to Welton, Radstock.<<

But it would be fair to assume the kinks in the road around Radstock and Charlingcot would also not have been there. The Fosse Way would have been considerably straighter. And the strightened course would bring the road within a half a mile of todays Camerton.

>>It then becomes hard to trace as it continues across Welton Hollow to Clandown (not Camerton) and onward towards Bath. Camerton village is off to the North of the road and while it might well have had a link road to both it and the Wells Rd. I think it's stretching it somewhat to claim the Fosseway actually went through it.<<

Has the settlement been subject to drift, I still think it is plausable to say Camerton was on or near the Fosse Way.

>>When new houses were built in Peasedown, another Roman village Eckwick was discovered on the other side of the Fosse way (Eckwick)<<

Sounds right the Roman village would be on the Fosse way if it was on the old Bath road. Can you supply more detail. Was it calld Eckwick and any idea of the size.

In conclusion I still think the route is close to fact (Camerton needs sorting and Eckwick ading) what do you think.

How are we getting on...

Bob...

Camerton found it on the Fosse Way near landown in the loop of the A367 an area of land enclosed by the Old Bath Road, typical its a displaced village.
we was both right

Hi Bob,
Yes, from looking at a few sites on the Net, most seem to agree that it started at Isca. The Channel 4 Time Team website has one of the best descriptions for the Southern end of the road:
'Starting at the fortress settlement of Isca (modern-day Exeter), the Fosse Way roughly follows the A30 to Honiton where it then cuts south along the A35 to Axminster. Here it cuts north again and follows an unclear line to Ilchester (Lindinis)...' which seems like a good explanation as to why there are so many Fosseway's in all directions in that area. Exeter it is then (I did say I wasn't an expert).

The line through the Nettlebridge valley via the village and footpath make sense as the fields to the left of the road there were coal workings in Roman times (and according to my neighbour they're a world heritage site - first I've heard of that but still...).

I've uploaded a couple of maps to ESnips which you might like to look at:

http://www.esnips.com/doc/43ba7280-49b5-4e99-8b2c-552261383884/fosseway0001

http://www.esnips.com/doc/4362fcf6-53f3-4198-9ad3-e664220b1d67/fosseway0002

These show the Radstock - Camerton section. Incidentally, the section of road between Radstock centre and Clandown was only built when the railways were put in, the road used to go up a steep hill behind the back of the Bell Hotel to rejoin the Fosseway at Wood Lea.

The village that I mentioned was a bit of confusion I can only blame on the headache and dizzy spells that I am getting with this blasted chest infection. Eckweek (the correct spelling) was excavated in 1998 and a medieval village or farmstead was found there (although some evidence of Roman occupation was also found). However, a Roman Villa was found at nearby White Ox Mead in a previous dig.

Hi Bob,

fantastic entry but I think there's still some work ahead of you. I couldn't say much about the facts, but a few general things attracted my attention:

- Title: the colon should go and perhaps you'd like to name it 'The Fosse Way - A Journey through Roman Britain' according to the Watling Street entry
- 'The Fosse Way' should be de-capitalised 'the Fosse Way' when appearing mid-sentence (several occasions)
- GuideML coding: ... should be replaced by ... (several occasions) - only use for subsections of an entry when there is a first
- GuideML coding: Don't use tags to separate paragraphs, use ... tags instead (several occasions)
- Latin words such as 'mansio' should be in italics (several occasions)
- Regular text such as 'Total so far...' shouldn't be in boldface (several occasions)
- The footnotes need a full stop at the end

Perhaps you'd like to have a look at <./>SubEditors-GuideML</.> - now the GuideML of the entry is somewhat cluttered...

That's it for now, I'll have a closer look at specific points later. Hope that list doesn't put you off...

SchrEck Inc.

Hi SchrEck Inc.

Just the opposite Thanks for tjhe interest...


Bob...

Sooo Radox
I think you are saying that the Fosse Way goes along to Shepton Mallet then splits one going to Camerton then to Illchester - Lindinis where it joins the Fosse Way from Axminster.

And the other from Shepton Mallet to Axminster then to Illchester - Lindinis where it joins together again.

As I cant argue with that...

So as a compromise how about this (remember its a rough note).

Honiton/Hembury - Muridunum (1) - 'Hillfort of the dead'

A small religious and trading settlement built alongside the Fosse Way. The settlement developed around 48 AD, around a hill fort that was on the border of the Dumnonii and the Durotriges.

On the Fosse Way continue north east to Ham Hill 23 miles
On the Fosse Way continue east to Axminster ?? miles
Total so far 18 miles.


Ham Hill - (2) On the Fosse Way north east
There was a Fort at Ham Hill built by the Second Augusta in 46 AD. A trading settlement developed alongside the fort and the Fosse Way. The settlement was of timber-framed housing and a few stone buildings, with some paved streets. The settlement was established to take advantage of the stone quarries in the area. This is the place where a particularly fine stone called 'Ham Stone' was quarried.

On the Fosse Way continue north east to Illchester - Lindinis, 6 miles
Total so far 41 miles.


Axminster - (1) On the Fosse Way east
The settlement founded on the Fosse Way and built as a defended settlement with earth and timber ramparts and faced with a ditch. Sited in a farming area it was a prosperous settlement of timber framed and stone housing and some municipal buildings, trade buildings and warehouses and paved streets. And there was a small port on the river Axe

On the Fosse Way continue north to Illchester - Lindinis, ?? miles

Total so far ?? miles.


Illchester - Lindinis (2)

A settlement defended with an earth and stone ramparts and ditches. The town had with a wide variety of housing, several temples and a theatre, with stone municipal buildings, and mainly paved streets.
There was a junction of the Fosse Way and local roads to Old Sarum, Bawdrip, East Anton, West Coker and Dorchester to the east of the town. And the two branches of the Fosse Way rejoin and become the Fosse Way to Shepton Mallet.

On the Fosse Way continue north east to Shepton Mallet 16 miles
Total so far 47 miles.

Will that do if so I will ammend the entry. If you provide mr with a photo for it .

Let me know please


Bob...

>>I think you are saying that the Fosse Way goes along to Shepton Mallet then splits one going to Camerton then to Illchester - Lindinis where it joins the Fosse Way from Axminster.

And the other from Shepton Mallet to Axminster then to Illchester - Lindinis where it joins together again.<<

No, I don't think that what I was saying... was it?

Camerton is to the North of Shepton Mallet by a few miles so doesn't come into the equation until later. As I interpret the route now, it starts at Isca, but only follows along the A303 until it gets to Honiton, then it takes the A35 South East to Axminster. From here, almost certainly North along the A358 to Chard, which was already an established settlement when the Romans arrived (the old part is still there and called 'old town' by the locals).

How the Fosseway then got from Chard to Ilchester is the bit that's shrouded in mystery, but I've found in my county of Somerset research that Wadeford and Whitestaunton both grew up as a result of the Fosseway being built. This would seem to indicate the path North of Chard would be on the West side of the town. Furthermore, if you draw a straight line from the A358 at Tatworth Road (where it enters Chard) to Wadeford and extend the line upwards it hits Ham Hill almost dead centre. I don't think it's an unreasonable leap of faith to say this is where it rejoined the A303 route to Ilchester.

Then the road goes to Shepton Mallet on the A37 and across the fields to Oakhill, joining the A367 at Nettlebridge until Welton where it splits off North West. It rejoins the A367 at Clandown, on the Eastern side of Camerton. After that, it continues to Bath via the old road through Peasedown St John.


So, the order would be:
Exeter (Isca Dumnoniorum)
Honiton / Hembury
Axminster
Chard
Ham Hill
Ilchester (Lindinis)
Shepton Mallet
Camerton
Bath (Aquae Sulis)

I don't know if there were ever two separate routes for the Fosseway from Honiton to Ilchester, but I can see how once the Civitas and forts were linked up there would be a good case for adding a link road between Honiton and Ham Hill. Given the Romans love of straight roads ('curvy is pervy' as they once said on Chelmsford 123) it wouldn't surprise me if they decided to add the short cut through, once it was possible to do so.

PS. I'm sure I could be persuaded to dig out the camera

Hi Radox.
So, the order would be:
Exeter (Isca Dumnoniorum)
Honiton / Hembury
Axminster
Chard
Ham Hill
Ilchester (Lindinis)
Shepton Mallet
Camerton
Bath (Aquae Sulis)


Yes and a twin route of:

Exeter (Isca Dumnoniorum)
Honiton / Hembury
Ham Hill
Ilchester (Lindinis)
Shepton Mallet
Camerton
Bath (Aquae Sulis)

This would cover both sets of evidence and both schools of opinion
I still cannot see why the road would go via Axminster and Chard. The fort at Ham Hill was important. but not as important as Axminster if it had a port. I admit my (and others) inclination is for a road from Dortchester via bridport to Honiton with a spur from Axminster to Ilchester. Part of which could have been known as the Fosse Way (as above)

I have evidence for both routes why not a combination.

How say you...

Bob...

Hi SchrEck Inc.

All done please comment

Bob...

Hi Bob, latest research findings:

The Dictionary of World History (Oxford University Press) says Axminster was the Fosse Way's starting point.

The Columbia University Press Encylopaedia says Exeter was the starting point.

Ordinance Survey have roads to the South of the A35 Axminster cross roads (heading to Seaton) marked as being the Fosse Way.

Wiki's version of the route runs from Axminster to the North East (before it gets to to Chard) up the B3167, across the A30 through unmarked roads, through Dillington and skirting Lopen and Over Stratton, to join the A303 at South Petherton bridge. Time Team discovered an important Roman Villa with a well preserved mosaic floor when they did a dig at Dillington, so that would fit in well with that route, and looking at the described journey on the map it does seem a logical (and quicker) path to take than Chard.

The Readers Digest 'Complete Atlas of the British Isles' has the Fosseway extend below Axminster to the coast at Seaton (Moridunum?). They also have a section of road marked South of Exeter to Teignmouth. I've uploaded the map here:

http://www.esnips.com/doc/a83d257a-fe4b-42fb-8d6b-a5bd1a2f6d5e/fosseway0003

It's one of the better maps I've found so far, showing the various mining areas and an aquaduct at Durnovaria (Dorchester).

Wiki also have a map of Roman Roads:
http://www.romans-in-britain.org.uk/map_romans_roads_in_britain.htm

Interestingly, some of the roads that Wiki have marked as uncertain are confirmed on other maps and some of those confirmed are marked uncertain on other maps.

Given the conflicting information and after trying to sort the wheat from the chaff, I think you are right that there is a good case for a split route. The course of the road seems to differ depending on where information is sourced, so any guide entry ought to reflect the uncertainty over the archaeological evidence. Why am I reminded of the Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy where Deep Thought told the theologians how much money they could make out of speculating about the eventual answer he would come up with?

So do we agree check the entry and comment on the rough and see if your give it your approval.

PS Chard wont get a mention as it is a Saxon town... unless you know better...

As the route doesn't look like it goes through it perhaps it's not worth mentioning Chard. However, to answer your Saxon town point, yes, the town as it stands today was first settled in Saxon times but...

'By the Roman period there seems to have been some level of occupation, with a number of finds of Roman artefacts and occupation debris having been found on the fringes of the modern town. Chard is within a few miles of the Fosse Way and several villas are known in the surrounding area - at Wadeford, Whitestaunton and South Chard'.

Source - The Somerset Urban Archaeological Survey (Chard by Miranda Richardson) by courtesy of Somerset County Council.

I check stuff too Bob.

Had a read through of the entry. Some of the punctuation needs tidying up and I don't like how you've worded the Sea Mills bit in the Bath section. Sea Mills is up near Avonmouth which is a hell of a distance from Bath. While it may have been the nearest sea port I'm not sure that saying Bath 'had a small port at Sea Mills' is the best way of putting it. How about 'the River Avon afforded access to the port at Sea Mills' which sums it up without making it sound like the town limits didn't go all the way to the Severn?

Other stuff you might want to throw in...
The word 'Fosse' comes from the latin word for ditch, 'fossa'. The road had ditches on either side along its length.
Construction started on the Fosse Way in AD49.

Hi yes but even the official Chard web site makes no claims to be Roman, in fact the opposite.

I will however check out the villas and the port Sea Mills. Also the fosse name, its all potentially good stuff.

Thanks for the interest

Hi Bob ,

I've give this a quick skim thrugh. These are my fist impressions:

There is a lot of repetition in para 1. I think it could be slimmed down a bit.

I found it very irritating to keep reading the English and Roman names for towns always written together (e.g. Exeter, Devon - Iscia Dumnonioru; Lincoln - Lindum. I think that, the first time you write it you should give the Roman name first follwed by the English name in brackets (i.e. Iscia Dumnonioru). Thereafter use the Roman name only . It might even be worth putting at the start a table of Roman vs English place names and henceforth use ONLY the Roman names


Put Roman words into italics (e.g. mansios,, tabernae, caupoae...)

through Owmby and south through Ancaster - Cavsennae. > Should this be Lancaster? ( I haven't checked)

Hi Al how are you better than your ties I hope...



>>I found it very irritating to keep reading the English and Roman names for towns always written together (e.g. Exeter, Devon - Iscia Dumnonioru; Lincoln - Lindum. I think that, the first time you write it you should give the Roman name first follwed by the English name in brackets (i.e. Iscia Dumnonioru). Thereafter use the Roman name<<

I wanted to keep as close as possable to this entry A22016882 but I have tided it up please comment.

>> It might even be worth putting at the start a table of Roman vs English place names and henceforth use ONLY the Roman names<<

I dont have (cant find) all the Roman names so it would be a bit of a problem, so I have put in only English place names (after the first mention)


>>Put Roman words into italics (e.g. mansios, tabernae, caupoae...)<<

All the times or just the first mention an then not after after the first mention

Looking forward to your comments