h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I'll agree with the "s**t or get off the pot" idea.


We need to do it or shut up about it.

Our stock market is in a full funk, not because of impending war, but because there is no finite decision one way or the other. The US economy will not recover until that decision is made.

It is not as if we are the first and only country in the world, or the UN, to unilaterally(and I use that term loosely) invade a country. It is not as if this is a first for our nation(though some would like you to think so).

But enough of the talk. Do the dirty deed or hush about it.

This thing has been hanging for 12 long years. Its' bl**dy rediculous. There is no need to let it drag on another day. Either leave Saddam where he is, as he is, or take him out. Get it over with, one way or the other.

NM

No offense meant, Clive!

12 years is nothing. The conflict between Zionists and Palestinians has been around for >50 years. Why not sort that out first? All that's needed is for the US to withhold its financial support until the Israelis dismantle their illegal settlements and withdraw from Palestinian territory. That should bring them to their senses.

Dry.

Sorry...the Isreali and Palistinian problem has been around a lot longer than 50 years.

50 years is only as long as the world, including the UN, agreed to form the Israeli independent state.

At which time the Arab world vowed to destroy it.(I'd be a bit defensive myself)

If you can settle that problem on H2G2, I'd suggest you try the Northern Ireland problem next. Who knows....you might be the one to find the answer!

As a matter of fact, there are quite a few ongoing disputes around the world that could use your help. Some have been going on for hundreds of years. Maybe you could convince China that it doesn't own Tibet.....or maybe you could keep India and Pakistan from blowing each other to dust with nuclear weapons.



NM

Sadly, if the Truth be known, and it must, all four of the big 'peace loving' countries, France, Germany, Russia and China stand to lose a bundle on their 'secret' sales and trade agreements with Iraq. They are not truly for peace, they just don't want to lose on their investments there.
If Saddam is toppled the French will be at least $5Billion out of pocket. The others will never collect on debts and will have their assets in Iraq destroyed or seized. Russia has a direct interest in oil production there as well as electric generating stations. Germany is owed for all sorts of technology and China wants paying for some weaponry and hi-tech know how they have supplied. If it all falls into American hands none of them will be paid.
But hey, if they can stop the blood letting, I say let 'em pretend to be innocent. We know better anyway.

~jwf~

"It is not as if we are the first and only country in the world, or the UN, to unilaterally(and I use that term loosely) invade a country. It is not as if this is a first for our nation(though some would like you to think so)."

When the UN acts "unilaterally" you have to spell it UNilaterally.

The failures of past US invasions are why some of us hope to stop this invasion. (Failures in terms of lives and democracy, but "successful" at making parts of the world safe for capitalism.)

I'll agree with what was write. Basicly what I say is put up or shut. My pop's watch's alot of msnbc & all I here & see on the tub/tv is we are going in here we have troop's here we need this we nees that we have this we have that this are defense weapon's are airplane's do this they have that blah, blah, blah, blah. Come on now really I know the simple fact's but to put in plain text put up or shut up. Now people may owe money to whoever, not my business anyway but for stateing the ovious which I do so many time's you can't get your money back when the people are dead like really dead like really really dead. I don't have do any"thing" with the stock market because I don't have much faith in the stock market only the knowledge of buy low sell high. Now for people who know what I'm talking about then you know. The fact of the matter is is that this war with,, Iraq & terrorist & solider's, first plain simple phraze no deepness to first plain simple phraze intended, is really starting to make me crankey. Ig I have to watch Msnbc one more time & hear the new people blah, blahing, about ther war plan's I am going to scream, again. The matter in the case of the war is this a second resoluotion for America & (allie's), (that's a funny word) has to be in effect so the war can start which anyway it has already been going on. So they have to go to their room's make their fight's & statement's for the second resolution but it sound's like to me that America & the politcian's don't know when they are defeated plus are angery about it so they have to put it on the public. Back in the old day's if people/ armies wanted to go to war they just crossed to land & went to war. Also on a separate subject back in some of the od day's they didn't even go to war they just a had a friendly tournment/ game & well plus just ate the people which is my personal favorite & my business favorite for the simple fact that if you know how to conserve your food supply you'll be around a while longer then long. Maybe the fact of the matter is that I should write about this stuff but foe the simple fact that all that I write in this is true well speak's for it's self. Now in the mattter of wraping this up what it means is what it mean's.
P

~jwf~..... you've been listening to "talk Radio" too much!!!LOL

You and I seem to be in agreement here...to a point. Thats' scary!

The US is "evil"...yep, I'll agree with that....but no worse than any other nation who is persuing their own best interests.

I think Dryopithecus pretty much summed up the reality. We are all pawns of our government. What they decide we either agree with or live with.

In this case, though, I'll agree with "the Cowboy". Enough is enough.

Under the original ceasefire(note....not surrender) agreement, Saddam was given 15 days to disarm. If not, there was no agreement.

Its' been 12 years. He still has not lived up to the terms of his end of that original agreement.

What are we supposed to do? Ignore it?

We are a**ses here in the US. We tend not to look kindly on folks who break treaty agreements...especially if there is national security or honor at stake.

This one qualifies as BOTH!

NM

To singler not both maybe it's just film's/movie's, movie's/film's but you know what meant to be statement I like the phraze I have turned cities to dust not on nuker war but has a statement of reverse protioning that sometime's nation's need to be the bigger "man". My pop's has taught me & other's for that matter to sometime's just to let stuff go. In another fact thou I feel instead of bombing or beeing like the terrorist US government official's should continue with what they are doing except for all the new's stuff like showdown with Iraq I think the new's should put in a segment show about what's going on in the US like for example, real, US government issue's, not to say thou that the war with Iraq isn't real, but like what is going on with the school system's, or the gas price's, or the transportion deptpartment & the road's, or what is beening done to help perserve American land mark's & building's or someone other then Savage on the new's. Actully I real don't like the guy but he is entertainment & has some pretty well stuff to say when he is on the tv I never heard his radio show thou. But the guy is well hey nut's savage is nut's. I was wondering about whn the guy called on his show & said that he called Mexico a terd world country. If he said that in the first place that guy savage is wacko. I know some Mexican people & some of them are well to write in a the least, I'm not just going to go there cause I like them.
P

This represents my view
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1056-573744,00.html

"We are a**ses here in the US. We tend not to look kindly on folks who break treaty agreements...especially if there is national security or honor at stake."


Native Americans, may have a different view

I don't know how native americans wouldn't fall into that category. They don't much like the BIA, or the feds in general...

Dry, dear, for the US to stop backing Israel would be, according to the Israelis, more proof that everyone is anti-Semitic. That's the one thing Israel has used time and again to maintain their foreign support. When Carter brokered the peace accords between Israel and Egypt, he also sought a reduction in US aid to Israel, since one of their major threats was gone. They cried "Jew Hater!" and he backed down. After a while, the guilt trip gets old. Yes, the Holocaust was a terrible, horrible thing, and we should be vigilant that it never happens again. What we should not be doing is bowing down to the guilt of that event.


But then again, there are those who believe in reparations for slavery. I myself, despite my liberal leanings, believe firmly that reparations should have been sought when someone who actually owned slaves was still alive. To do it now would only create a deeper racial divide.

But this is about Iraq. What I want to know is what the Shrub plans for the Kurds in the north. Every time he or his press secretary get asked any questions about the Kurds, they run circles around the question without answering it (okay, so they do that with most questions, but still). Ari said yesterday that a Kurdish homeland is not in the plans, but then how, without a constant presence, will the US ensure that this persecuted minority is left alone?

"don't know how native americans wouldn't fall into that category"
sorry I meant that the Native American was a victim of broken treaties by the US government - an accusaton leveled at Iraq.

Who was the US spokesman the other night who said (to paraphrase) "There have been more than 150 wars since the UN was formed and few of them have ever asked for a mandate from the UN"?

A significant difference in this case is that the state which wishes to initiate military action is claiming to do so in the name of world peace. I'd personally find it hard to say that with a straight face without the support of the only global forum in which we can debate such propositions.

Apols. if this has come up in the backlog - this is a very busy thread and I'm *supposed* to be a very busy man!

tlah

Bush doesn't give a shit about the Kurds.

The American government way. Please pay attention because there will be a quiz.

You don't help people, you exploit them and you sure as hell don't pay them reparations or anything else you owe them unless you're forced too. Because you're full of excuses and horseshit and call it truth, justice and the American way. That's the American government in action.

If the government ever had to pay full price for anything currently or historically, it would be so deep in the hole you couldn't find it with a drilling rig. There certainly wouldn't be any third world because there wouldn't be a first world or a second world. And there probably wouldn't be billions of dollars squandered on 18000 pound bombs or other weapons of mass destruction. People keep forgetting where that stuff actually comes from and it's not somebody's garage in Baghdad, it's somebody's factory or lab or whatever in the US or Europe.

Yeah, Americans dislike treaty breakers unless the treaty breakers happen to be the American government or the American people. Then they're okay with it because they always got excuses about why they're the exceptions to everything. If fact I think I can say firsthand that the Americans are the most prolific treaty breakers I know about.

Is there really going to be another quiz?

you are right ana but who will pause to think on it let alone listen to u?

Yeah, I know. We're all in a hurry to get it over with right? No time to pause or think. No consideration that not doing something, not starting this war, might be the best something to do this time around.

No choice anyways. The Cowboy Clown Prince, who has divided the nation as much as anybody since the American Civil War, will not be denied his personal grudge match to shine for dah dah.

Sort of like when just before WWI started, the Germans couldn't stop their attack through Belgium because it would screw up the train schedules.

So, you're right. Don't listen. Don't think and above all don't question the American government.

They know what you've got to do.
They know what's right for you.
And if you chance to think out loud,
you better do it in a crowd.

>>..who will pause to think on it...<<

I honestly believe several people here have been informed by Analiese. Whether thay have been absorbed by her passion or her wit, they are becoming more aware of many issues and perspectives they had never considered before. One small step for mankind...

And personally I listen to, and appreciate, very word she says. I would never have believed such a complex mind, with such eloquent and witty expressions of such a tuff realism, could be found in someone with such a big heart such a sensitive soul.

Analiese for President of the world!


~jwf~