h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

People who are too stupid to follow an arrow are too stupid to pick the president. Throwing out their ballots is the greatest acheivement in American politics since the Populists.

Not to the tune of over 19,000 ballots it isn't. Not when the gap between the counts is this small, it isn't.

That's exactly why they shouldn't be counted... or would you rather have such a monumental decision made for you by the 70 IQ club?

How true--the right for just about everyone to vote isn't always the greatest policy...but there's nothing in the Constitution prohibiting discrimination on the basis of IQ, I think.

Let the people who have the brains to actually make a choice be the ones who vote, I say.

That's the whole point of the electoral college, isn't it? To protect democracy from the stupidity of the masses? Or am I being a little over-cynical here about the world's greatest democracy?

There's no possible way you can be over-cynical when it comes to Americans, democracy, and voting. Only a fraction of the registered voters actually go to the polls. On top of that, registered voters are only a fraction of the voting-age population. Americans take for granted and abuse a system that people in other countries die for. Maybe we need a little Serbian situation here to wake the complacent masses up.

I can sympathize with the Colonel and Corrupt One's desire not to have uneducated citizens voting, but I would ask why one of the wealthiest countries in the world can't provide basic education to its people so everyone can make informed decisions. The only ones that go to the polls seem to be the wingnuts on either end of the political spectrum and not those that misguided government policies actually impact.

I had someone actually boast to me at work Monday that they have never voted since turning 18--she's now 42. I asked her if she felt this behavior was something to really be proud of...it's an attitude that is all too prevalent in America. It's disgusting.

To answer two questions from the beginning of the thread, Al Gore isn't a very charismatic person. This was noted when he became Vice President 8 years ago. If there was any personality-based rejection of him, it was likely for this reason. It's also possible a few people voted against him because they felt he was untruthful during the debates, but my experience has been that most people complaining about his 'whoppers' already planned to vote against him.

There are no female candidates for President because Americans prefer candidates with a significant record in public office. Usually, party candidates either have been governors in a highly populated state or members in good standing of the US Senate or House of Representatives. To qualify for these, your best chance is to have held another office, and so forth.

Women are still underrepresented in American politics, partly because they are still climbing the political ladder and partly because they must combat lingering prejudice to get assigned by their political peers to important committees. There are many potential future candidates who simply don't have enough experience to qualify in the minds of the people yet. My guess is that we will see viable female presidential candidates in 10-20 years.

Some of you may be interested to join in here http://www.h2g2.com/F19585?thread=75843&post=707251 On the debate that started about our (UK) stupid population trying to ursurb our joke of a democracy (The thread is UK fuel crisis) but has now moved on to a general theme of new political systems, from the "kill and sterilise the stupid " (my idea) to a few more liberal. Feel free to join in. CH

Remember that much confusion is still unfolding as to "how many this and this" and "wrong votes" etc. etc. etc. My guess is that in about 10 years (earlier if we're lucky) we'll actually find out what's happening in this tragic election ballot count. NO ONE knows right now, but everyone has an opinion.

Part of the problem is that urban myths are developing about misplaced ballot boxes, computer errors, and so on. There is a segment of the population that views this super close election and choses to see a conspiracy.

As I say this, the Florida returns are coming in fast. There are now only 400 votes between the candidates, with 9 counties left to report. This is statistically amazing, considering that about 6 million votes were cast.

70 IQ? By my reckoning that's a whole ten points smarter than "dubyah"

Agreeing with Frau G; I learned all about the Suffragettes at school, the fact that women died so that I may vote affected me deeply, and I couldn't wait to be of age.
Every time I cast a vote, I am exercising my rights as a citizen of democracy and my freedom of choice.
I taught my daughters the same as I had been taught.
They go vote, in respect and deference to the ones who died for their beliefs.
I am also sickened by the "can't be bothered to leave my armchair" brigade, then complain like Hell about the people who ~are~ voted in.

"World's Greatest Democracy" - Sounds like a nice place. Where is it? Is it hard to get a work Visa?

As for armchair complainers, they need a wake-up call. They don't vote because they don't like either alternative. That's fine. In the presidential election this year, I hate both alternatives, which is why I hope it takes a dozen years to straighten out this whole Florida thing. However, I chose to register my dissatisfaction with the status quo and the Republicrat party by casting my vote for third parties, all the way across the board. Every single person I voted for lost, but I couldn't be prouder. It gives me free license to complain about everything the government does, because they were too stupid to listen to me. If anyone who didn't vote opens their mouth to complain, tell them to shut their cake-holes. They're part of the problem, not the solution. We need to start shaming people into voting. Well, except for those who are too stupid to mark their ballots... they need to stay at home and watch their cousins on Cops and Jerry Springer.

As fr education: You produce a ballot with the candidates' names, and a little arrow to follow to the appropriate hole to punch. How could it be more simple? How do you educate people who can't do this? I've found myself in the position of trainer many times already in my career, and I've found myself confronted with a few individuals who just don't have the capacity to learn. They just don't know how to think. How do you teach technology to people like this? You don't. Upper management notices what is going on, and lets them go, and hires someone that you hope you'll have better success with. Well, let's just consider that Florida ballot to be upper management. Those voters are now fired.

I'm sure they can get employment over here in Britain if they want it...

Third parties... I agree that people who can't be bothered to vote are a part of the problem. They should show their disillusionment with the mainstream candidates by trying to find an alternative. If I was American I would have voted for Nader, because I think he is the only one trying to talk about a new kind of politics for the future. From the Green point of view, Gore (in spite of his supposed environmental credentials) is on the same side as Bush - the wrong side...

Then again, maybe Nader has his faults too. I don't know - we don't hear much about the American minority parties over here in England, but from a distance he seems like a decent enough guy. For a politician...

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I was thinking beyond the present Palm Beach County ballot example with my comments regarding education and voting. In general: Why is the American public so apathetic when it comes to upholding the Constitution and defending our rights? Is it because of the rampant materialism in this culture?

"I have my Laz-E-Boy, the Playboy Channel, and my collection of Elvis Presley Commemorative Plates, so who gives a damn what's going on!"

Is it the lack of knowledge of current affairs, history, politics, and citizenship being taught in the schools? Or, is it because we've never seen armed conflict and brutality on the scale of Serbia, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan, et. al. on these shores since the Civil War?

I don't think Americans will be snapped out of their laziness and stupidity until our rights have been taken away from us, unfortunately.

By the way, there are only 362 votes now seperating Gush and Bore.

There was a quote from Bill Clinton flashed on the bbc news website earlier today:

"No-one will ever be seriously able to say again 'my vote doesn't count'."

Given how close things are getting in florida (362 out of 6 million votes! - that's incredible.)
I thought that was quite a nice sentiment from the departing president and a wake up call to the armchair brigade.

Clive

A few dozen million people who voted (twice over) for Clinton might disagree that their votes actually counted for something...

I think the reason for voter apathy is that, while people are smart enough generally to be disillusioned with the mainstream candidates, they don't have the imagination - or simply can't be bothered - to try to think their way past disillusionment to a more progressive view. I think many people simply don't believe strongly enough in democracy to try to make it work. That's a bit sad, because we've had long enough now to get used to the idea of it (if not the reality). Maybe it's true, as some say, that popular representation requires a mature People before it can really work. Whatever - I suppose democracy is like anything else - ignore it for long enough, and it'll go away...

Hey, even you guys with throw-weight IQ's might be a little confused by a poorly printed ballot with the text misaligned relative to the punch-holes! Evidently a pristine example has been put on public view, rather than the ones that weren't printed correctly.

And what would you lofty intellectuals do if you asked for another ballot and were refused, and couldn't find out till you got home that the official was the one in the wrong?

Don't get me wrong, I despise arrant stupidity as much as y'all, and I deplore the lack of adequate civic education. But let's not get all smart-assed about those who might have brains but, for other psychological or cultural reasons, might not be any good at standing up to authority, or questioning it. Those of you who voted for Bush try and remember that your conservatism is supposed to be compassionate.

-a Floridian voter, not from West Palm Beach

Now have I got this right?There are those of you who would limit voting to people of a certain IQ?Have I got that right?If so I'm very,very worried.I wonder what WW11 was all about-why so many lives were lost.I will ask one more(or two) questions.WHO decides who is too stupid to vote?AND where will they draw the line?What if the IQ is set too high and you fall into the nonvoting section of the community?What sort of IQ test will you rely on for assessment?
My point is everybody has to have the right to vote or you start going down roads we have already fought a war over.It might be more to the point to make voting COMPULSARY.If you do so then the polititians are going to have to work a hell of a lot harder to get the voters to vote for them and to get their political points across.They will have to earn their pay.Also if voters and polititians were reminded more often that the representives in government are EMPLOYED by the PEOPLE not the people employed by the government then maybe more people would vote.I suspect that many voters/non voters would also like to see the huge amounts of money spent on election campaigns reduced and everybody forced to compete on a more level playing field.Then maybe theremight be more content to the electioneering instead of fudgeing.
This bring me to why I have little respect for British Members of Parliament.They actually vote on their own pay increases and in the past we have had the unedifying situation where they voted for an 18% pay increase whilst insisting that everyone else should stay within a 2% wage increase.How is one to have respect for government in a situation like that?I still make a point of voting though for reasons I have stated elsewhere in this thread.