h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Being a typical U.K citizen and understanding little of the U.S political candidates and there pollicies,I have a simple question which I would like answered if anyone could.Is it fair to say that Bush is to right wing polotics what say Lenin was to the left wing? I mean he seems about as right as you can go without falling off from what I can make out.But as I said I know very little and understand less!

Heh, heh. Up late finishing essays and stuff. Checked out the election coverage on the BBC.
Ha'parently, Gore just gained Florida. This makes things interesting. Putting him into the lead in the elctoral colledge system for the first time since the polls opened.

In my own kinda distanced and did-interested way, I hope Gore gets it. Personality and campaign issues aside, I have reservations about the Bush' s conservative-republican attitude towards things like the gun and the tobacco lobbies. At last things were going against them and I hope that doesn't stop.

Not that what I think really matters.

Clive - it's late, 1.21am, I really ought to go to bed - <- That's meant to be a yawn!

Now CNN just took Florida away from Gore, and put it back in the "undecided" category. This is the first time I've seen a candidate go backwards.

Bush is conservative, but he is a moderate conservative. There is a candidate further to the right - Buchanan. In past years he has run for President as a Republican (the same party as Bush) but never won the nomination, but this year he has gone with something called the Reform Party which really does not have a coherent political philosophy. He does not get much attention and is considered a fringe candidate.

The latest I saw (which is 10:30 pm central time) Gore had jumped into a very slight 231 - 229 lead. He was down 217 to 173 before, so it's a sizable jump. Makes you think he might actually be able to pull it off.

CNN's thing about Florida was only a projection - it's not a for sure yet, and the reason why they took it away was because it's so close, that with all of the out of state votes, it could really go either way.

Nader's an open antisemite, so I hope he doesn't get the 5%. For those who don't know, if Nader gets 5% of the popular vote (he'll never get an electoral vote!) he will be granted equal campaign funding for the next elections. That's tax payer's money.

The popular vote - electoral vote is complicated, especially to those unfamiliar with the US system. So I'm taking it upon myself to unofficially explain it to everyone, and all of you Americans can take it upon yourselves to correct and laugh at me if I get anything wrong. I'm Canadian, btw, but I *did* do high school in Chicago, and I had to take US History, so I learned abotu this kind of....stuff.

Anyway, each state has a determined number of electoral votes, which is dependent on the population (I believe). So whoever wins the election for that state gets all of the electoral votes for that state. I don't remember if you need a two thirds majority (67%) of the votes, or just a simple majority (51%) to win that. SO in simple terms, electoral votes are votes used for determining the presidency, whereas the popular vote is the total number of people across the country who voted for a particular party.

So how does it work if one person wins the popular vote and the other wins the electoral? Well, let me put it this way. A candidate needs 270 electoral votes to win. So let's say that Gore wins 270 electoral votes, and Bush only wins 230. So Gore wins the electoral vote, and becomes president. But let's then say that all of his 270 votes were won by only 55%. So that means that 45% of that population voted for Bush. Next we'll say that Bush won all of his votes by 95%, so Gore only got 5% of those votes.

Two things to take into account here. The first is that I'm excluding all other parties, to make it simpler. Second, I'm exaggerating the numbers, also to make it simpler.

So we'll pretend, for simplicity sake, that there are only 10 people per electoral vote (it's by population, remember? The states with the larger populations get more electoral votes). Which means that Gore's 270 represents 2700 people, and Bush's 230 represents 2300 people. Now we'll do the math. Out of 2,700 people, Gore only got 55%, which comes out to 1485. That gives Bush 1215. Now, out of the 2300 people, Gore only got 5%, which is a mere 115. That gives Bush 2185. So add them up, and Gore has 1600, and Bush has 3400. SO Bush wins the popular vote, even though Gore won the electoral vote.

To my knowledge, that has never happened. It might, this time. Just remember, though - ALL of those numbers above were made up, only to give you an idea of how the popular vs. electoral votes work.

Still here. (Hey whad'yaknow, my first whole 24hrs without sleep!)

Did I say Florida made things interesting? CRUCIAL MORE LIKE IT!!!

The statistics that the news has been rolling out for the past 3hrs has been a steady increase in the percentage-counted of the florida vote, last time I heard it was something like 91% complete but with still lots of postal/absentee votes yet to be sorted.

Of that 91% at 3.30am, Bush held 50% to Gore's 48. that's been steadily reducing until this morning, apparently it's now 49% each - which to my hopelessly mathematically-inept mind that that is a surge in late votes for Gore. 7.16am and with Florida still not won. Tense doesn't do it justice. (Hang on, I don't even LIVE over there, this is bizarre. I actually CARE ! The effects of Mass Media I guess.) The latest is that one of the last provinces of Florida to be counted is the Little Havanna community that still holds a grudge against Clinton for Elian Gonzarlez

Oh BREAKING NEWS!!! - BUSH HAS CLAIMED FLORIDA!!!!

I luv TV....


Clive

Congratulations Mr.Bush!
Condolences Mr.Gore...

Hold your horses! Bush doesn't have Florida just yet. Since the vote is so close (last number I heard was 1,800 votes) state law demands a recount. Both campaign teams have sent herds of their lawyers to watch over the recount.

At the bottom of everything, you'll find a lawyer...

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Apparently, the latest news is they have found an un-opened ballot box in a Presbyterian church in Florida (i.e. totally un-counted votes). Being in a coloured area, it can be assumeed that most of the 'un-counted' votes will be for Gore......The plot thickens.....and now both Bush and Gore are sending their lawyers etc. down to Florida post-haste to over-see and inspect evey minute detail. Thank you America you have managed to give us an enjoyable farce on par with our own London Mayoral elections.

(For my own part I would prefer Gore to win - better the devil you know etc.)

I had no idea the electoral college system was so bizarre! A few thousand votes in several million decide whether 25 votes go to Bush or 25 votes go to Gore. Odd! A triumph of disproportional representation.

Actually, it's perfectly proportional representation.

Each state has an elector corresponding to the combined amount of Senators (every state has only two) and Representatives. Since the number of Representatives is based upon population, the Electoral College is based on the population of each state and the amount of Congresspersons they already have. Thus, the College reflects the balance of power already existing in Congress.

Montana, where I live, has three Electoral College votes because of our small population (49th out of 50 in the US). We have two Senators and only one Representative. Florida, the source of this crazy situation, has two Senators and 23 Representatives--thus 25 College votes--the same as their contingent in Congress.

To get even more complicated, each state actually has double the number of members in the Electoral College. Each political party nominates supporters to serve as electors, an equal number representing Republicans and Democrats. So, Montana has six electors, and Florida has 50. When a particular candidate wins that state they win the votes of their party's electors. The losers, I assume, go home to have a beer and watch some TV.

At this moment, we have no president. Ahh... I could not have envisioned a better result.

Interesting, all that chat regarding character earlier in this thread -- calling on or another or both candidates liars or whatever. In a world still too full of dictator-psychopaths and warlords and such, we can't afford to be led by a man with no knowledge or understanding of the dark side. In fact, I thought one of the things that made Clinton (whom I voted for twice) so effective was that he knew how to handle maggots in power! The president needs to be a champion class liar and have an understanding of twisted character if he is to be effective in post-millenial foreign policy.

As for the prospect of Bush winning this election, I am ashamed of the campaign process. I listened to all the news I could every day, and it outrages me to think that anyone would call Dubya the better man purely on the basis of sympathy/antipathy. This is all Ronald Reagan's fault.

Bill Machiavelli Clinton?

Clinton is still the president. They've got months to sort it out

On pollution: I was reading the news yesterday and came across an article on the fact that the U.S. Supreme Court is hearing a case this week on the legality of the Clean Air Act. This is the legislation which regulates the amount of harmful emissions a vehicle can put into the atmosphere from it's exhaust. Any of you who have been to/seen Los Angeles up close have seen the "chewability" of our air. I was in Los Angeles for 6 weeks before I saw the Hollywood Hills for the first time, a mere 2 miles away! I had absolutely no idea they were there; and that was 30 years ago. The air is still fairly visible, but at least you can see across town or to the mountains now. The fact that "big business" in the form of the Trucking industry (which brought the suit) feels that clean air regulations impede their right to do business SCARES me. "G.W." has gone on record that government should not keep businesses from making money just because they might pollute.
I gave up on caring about this election sometime last week when I heard two big-name "talking heads" on one of the networks actually debating who would win if there was bad weather, in any of the major states. It seems that "everybody" knows that Democrats won't bother to vote if it's raining! (I voted anyway, in spite of my disgust; there are too many places in the world where people have literally died for the chance to do so. Besides, who's president isn't the only issue.)

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. 4,999,999 Floridans support Gore, 5,000,001 support Bush: result - 25 college votes to Bush. Or vice-versa. Surely the smart thing would be 12 to Gore, 12 to Bush and 1 to Buchananadernoneoftheabove. Or whatever.

Wish I could take credit for following, but the author is anonymous.

Jim Lehrer: Welcome to the third presidential debate between Vice
President Al Gore and Gov. George W. Bush. The candidates have agreed on these rules: I will ask a question. The candidate will ignore the
question and deliver rehearsed remarks designed to appeal to undecided
women voters. The opponent will then have one minute to respond by
trying to frighten senior citizens into voting for him. When a speaker's time has expired, I will whimper softly while he continues to spew incomprehensible statistics for three more minutes.

Let's start with the vice president. Mr. Gore, can you give us
the name of a downtrodden citizen and then tell us his or her story in a way that strains the bounds of common sense?

Gore: As I was saying to Tipper last night after we tenderly made love
the way we have so often during the 30 years of our rock-solid marriage, the downtrodden have a clear choice in this election. My opponent wants to cut taxes for the richest 1 percent of Americans. I, on the other hand, want to put the richest 1 percent in an ironclad lockbox so they can't hurt old people like Roberta Frampinhamper, who is here tonight. Mrs. Frampinhamper has been selling her internal organs, one by one, to pay for gas so that she can travel to these debates and personify problems for me. Also, her poodle has arthritis.

Lehrer: Gov. Bush, your rebuttal.

Bush: Governors are on the front lines every day, hugging people, crying with them, relieving suffering anywhere a photo opportunity exists. I want to empower those crying people to make their own decisions, unlike my opponent, whose mother is not Barbara Bush.

Lehrer: Let's turn to foreign affairs. Gov. Bush, if Slobodan
Milosevic were to launch a bid to return to power in Yugoslavia, would
you be able to pronounce his name?

Bush: The current administration had eight years to deal with that guy and didn't get it done. If I'm elected, the first thing I would do about that guy is have Dick Cheney confer with our allies. And then Dick would present me several options for dealing with that guy. And then Dick would tell me which one to choose. You know, as governor of Texas, I have to make tough foreign policy decisions every day about how we're going to deal with New Mexico.

Lehrer: Mr. Gore, your rebuttal.

Gore: Foreign policy is something I've always been keenly interested in. I served my country in Vietnam. I had an uncle who was a victim of poison gas in World War I. I myself lost a leg in the Franco-Prussian War. And when that war was over, I came home and tenderly made love to Tipper in a way that any undecided woman voter would find romantic. If I'm entrusted with the office of president, I pledge to deal knowledgeably with any threat, foreign or domestic, by putting it in an ironclad lockbox. Because the American people deserve a president who can comfort them with simple metaphors.

Lehrer: Vice President Gore, how would you reform the Social Security
system?

Gore: It's a vital issue, Jim. That's why Joe Lieberman and I have
proposed changing the laws of mathematics to allow us to give $50,000
to every senior citizen without having it cost the federal treasury a
single penny until the year 2250. In addition, my budget commits $60
trillion over the next 10 years to guarantee that all senior citizens
can have drugs delivered free to their homes every Monday by a federal
employee who will also help them with the child-proof cap.

Lehrer: Gov. Bush?

Bush: That's fuzzy math. I know, because as governor of Texas, I have
to do math every day. I have to add up the numbers and decide whether
I'm going to fill potholes out on Rt. 36 east of Abilene or commit funds to re-roof the sheep barn at the Texas state fairgrounds.

Lehrer: It's time for closing statements.

Gore: I'm my own man. I may not be the most exciting politician, but I will fight for the working families of America, in addition to turning the White House into a lusty pit of marital love for Tipper and me.

Bush: It's time to put aside the partisanship of the past by electing no one but Republicans.

Lehrer: Good night.

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Sorry, Guy, I'm so used to explaining the Electoral College system to the idiots at work that I assume most people don't understand it. After all, I had to convince somebody (and it was hard!) here that the District of Columbia was its own entity, and not in the state of Maryland...

I just heard on the news this morning that lawyers for the Democratic Party are going to sue the state of Florida and Palm Beach County for voter fraud. They believe the way the ballots in that locale were written led confused senior citizens to vote for Pat "What Holocaust?" Buchanan rather than Algore.