h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"You typify the average dumb American who stood by and let Bush make a mockery of the democratic system."
from Empty Sky

"When I agreed with Dave’s suggestion of assassinating Bush, obviously that was tongue-in-cheek."
from Empty Sky

Nothing is obvious.
Is there obvious intent in your statements?

This is a grade school lesson in case you missed it.
Assume = ass u me
from Mrs Arlington , 4th grade teacher

I feel comfortable with the Feds.
I hope they monitor this site,

I strongly disagree Oetzi. Get the feds outta my library records. I guess they probably can go onto public sites, but cripes, I don't like the thought of it.

There's an excellent lesson to be had: the feds recently started talking about keeping & routinely using library records to flag suspicious individuals. The national association of librarians went nuts, they protested immediately, loudly, and through the appropriate channels. The best part is they've succeeded - and their swift response probably put a damper on any attempts in the near future.

This is an excellent example of how great the US democracy can be, citizens are knowledgeable and take action.

dave

Bravo Dave!!!

About bloody time someone made a positive post for the yanks that wasn't based on rumour, innuendo, and rightist politik! Absolutely! There are many, many aspects of the business/government jugernaut that are without peer.

btw, I reserve my right to ridicule that which I *don't* like!

Actually Dave I don't think they were successful. Sadly, I think the federales can still demand access to library records. However many libraries are now keeping only short term records in an effort to vex the feds.
Oetzi, the US FBI operates the largest internet surveillence program in the world as far as I know. Rest assured anytime you've threatened violence, used any of a number of key words like 'bomb' 'assassinate' or 'kill' in any close proximity to 'Bush' 'Americans' etc etc it has set off their tracking software and put a little tick against your name in a computer file somewhere. Of course since this is a UK based site they have no jurisdiction or right to do this, but when has that ever stopped the american federal government, especially the FBI?

I don't think out Tony would let a little thing like the law from stopping him helping his pal George, and even if he did our security services certainly wouldn't.

Ah, Dave... Empty and I get into it every now and then. He can't help but say stupid things, and I can't help but call him on it. This post is the last time I'm going to respond to something Empty's said - I have better things to do with my time... like pulling weeds. Or washing dishes. Or watching paint dry.

Empty, first of all:

> Lentilla, when I say you are most culpable I am quite serious. You typify the average dumb American who stood by and let Bush make a mockery of the democratic system.

First of all, if I typify the average dumb American, then you're calling me dumb. There's no way to gloss over that particular insult.

How exactly did I stand by? I voted for Gore.

You keep going back to the notion that there's something the average American can do to 'fix' the problems with our judicial and electoral system. I would have to run for office in the state of Florida, get elected to a major political post, then begin to make changes in the Supreme Court of that state. Then I'd have to run for Senator, then Governor, then I'd have a chance of getting to be the President. I can already tell you that's not going to happen. Of all the possible careers, that's one I've never wanted.

> You claim not to support Bush but you are perhaps more useful to him than anyone else.

Maybe I'm just dumb, but I fail to understand your point. I don't support Bush and I point out his shortcomings at every opportunity.

> And while you continue to believe that Americans are somehow superior and infallible, the true horror of your government’s actions will never be quite real to you.

Where have you been? Since when have I said that Americans are superior and infallible? I get the impression (again) that you aren't really bothering to read what I'm saying. I have a very good idea of how badly my government's screwing up the works, thank you. Probably better than you. (And that's a specific 'you, Empty' rather than a second-person you. English teachers would be slapping your hand with a ruler for mixing up your third person 'you' with the second-person 'you.')

> When I agreed with Dave’s suggestion of assassinating Bush, obviously that was tongue-in-cheek.

Ah, good. Then the Feds can relax.

You're full of vitriol and accusatory statements, but I've never heard you utter a single useful comment that would help to solve this current problem. If you can't help, then stop with the poking of sticks.

While the Feds still have the right to look at anything they want to in the library, they aren't really interested in who's checked out which book. They don't have enough manpower.

It still scares me that somebody's tracking every book I've ever checked out. I've never checked out 'Steal This Book' or the 'Anarchist's Cookbook,' which I understand puts you on the list automatically, but I have
read some pretty subversive materials.

Just looked online and found this web edition of 'Steal This Book.' Never read it before - it's pretty funny.

http://www.tenant.net/Community/steal/steal.html#2.11.1

Well I for one welcome security oversight on the net.
Lots of child sex abusers have been convicted using this method already and I have no doubt whatsoever that the net is indeed policed.

Put it this way. Would I drive the 4OOkm to London on an unpoliced highway. In an armed Hummer maybe...in a 13 yr old veteran unlikely.
This is a highway folks. It needs policing.

Carnivore, the US Intelligence agency's internet surveillance program, has been signed up to by numerous countries, including, i believe, the UK and Canada. There was a lot about it on slashdot when a bit ago so shall try and find something relevant. They were the ones who were trying to (succeeding?) to get a 'black box' installed in all ISPs which recorded all traffic.

Certainly *all* UK internet traffic goes through just 1 server farm to get out of the country. Not sure where it is now, but it used to be at the golf balls, the US intelligence listening post in the UK.

On a separate tack, and just to get some comments, seen this?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3305501.stm
US bars companies from countries which objected to the Iraq War from competing for contracts in Iraq.

Well what did you expect, its purely a smoke screen for contracts being awarded to Bush's backers and companies in politically sensitive areas of the country where economic boosts will do his re-election chances a shot in the arm.

The contracts and who they were going to was a forgone conclusion before the "war", or unauthorised and homocidal land clearance as it should be more acurately be described, began.

Folks Listen To Uncle OO

You're living in a real life dream. You do not know how lucky you are. You sleep at night, you travel as and where you please and if you're hurt then someone will come and help.

I've read so much academic "crap" from authors like this linquistics guy....(thinks)...Noam Chomsky, the other one called Said and a bunch of UK based Milton Keynes (the Hertfordshire location not the economist please note) based whingers that I could vomit.

In fact I'll go so far and say they are, in my opinion, partly responsible for terrorism. So many of the terrorists were educated with this stuff at western universities. Then you've got the other set of graduates who legitimize international crime.

And you tell me you want an open and free society...my God folks are you on an eternal "happy trip" or what?

Highlighting the crimes and abusive inequalities that the rich wets enjoys over the poor masses in the west and rest of the world is not the cause of terrorism.

The crimes and inequalities them selves are the root cause of terrorism. What you are suggesting is that people who can see what is going on keep quite eat their McHappy meals and not rock the boat.

OO off and do that if you want but dont blame the whilstle blowers for the reaction to the dirty deeds that others commit. Prat.

Could we classify the last post as "ad hominem"?

What's the substance Blicky. Don't mind the personal
insults at all.

Where's the substance of your argument?

You're living in a real life dream. You do not know how lucky you are.

I do actually know how lucky I am. I can communicate easily and relatively cheaply with people on all continents, whilst half the population of the world have never made a phone call and live in countries with poor or no communications infrastructure.

I also know that if I wanted to I could ask my GP to put me forward for elective surgery to correct my cauliflower ears at the end of my playing days and I may even get it done for free. While in undeveloped nations people go blind for want of treament that only costs a few pence.



I've read so much crap from...Noam Chomski...and a bunch of UK based Milton Keynes (the Hertfordshire location not the economist please note) based whingers that I could vomit.

Whats up all the boat rocking making you feel sea sick?


In fact I'll go so far and say they are, in my opinion, partly responsible for terrorism...Then you've got the other set of graduates who legitimize international crime.

Are you trying to say that one set of graduates insight international terrorism and the "other set" go about justifying it?

Have you forgotten where all those blokes in the stock exchange in strippy shirts and bracers come from or that our glorious leader Blair is a product of the schools of terror that you regard universities to be?

I would like to be on a trip where my comfort was not subsidised by the exploitation of those who live in poverty. Where the landless were not overchaged by the landowners to the point where they become little more than serfs.

Theres a lot wrong with the world and no I dont think terrorism is the answer (even though I understand the injustices that mitigate such crimes), but neither is turning a blind eye to the fact that so many people are kept in poverty by unfair trade practices and military oppression is any sort of answer either.

However you are welcome to bury your head in the sand (or somewhere else) if thats what you want Uncle OO.

Hey blackberry, what evidence do you have of this massive library surveillance that the FBI is conducting?

That is the substance Blick. No offence taken I hope.

Personally I think the Feds are using the mobile library vans that tour the English backwaters. I've noticed an increase in GM rental motors in the same locales and on the same days.

I'm surely on their list. Not only is my place regularly buzzed "low and slow" by a pair of playful F-18s but last summer I had a visitor.
A guy turned up with an aerial photograph.

A picture of yours truly was produced. Me sticking two fingers up in my front yard. My collar was being felt I believe. Next time I'm on the roof I'll raise a friendly flag. If I survive the jetwash that is!

That surveillance is well scary, Lentilla. I hope the tentacles haven't extended too far here - although we do have 'golf balls' of our own, not too far from where I am sitting!
'Steal this Book' *is* funny.

Dave

"Hey blackberry, what evidence do you have of this massive library surveillance that the FBI is conducting?"

I don't have any evidence. I didn't say anything about the FBI and library surveillance. I think revd. paperboys comment about internet surveillance must be what you meant.

Oetzi, Oetzi, Oetzi...

> In fact I'll go so far and say they are, in my opinion, partly responsible for terrorism. So many of the terrorists were educated with this stuff at western universities. Then you've got the other set of graduates who legitimize international crime.

I have to disagree with this statement. Saying that education is responsible for terrorism is like saying that movies are responsible for violence. (Some of you might be saying, 'well, yeah!') In my opinion, a violent movie doesn't force the viewer to go out and commit violence. Heck, a romantic movie doesn't make you go out and do romantic things, does it?

The knowledge to do horrible things will always be there for the taking. It's up to the individual to make that personal choice not to harm another human being. Librarians live by this philosophy - no censorship, and total freedom of information. This is why the libraries were so upset about the proposed tracking of dangerous individuals by library materials. They're also the first to protest when the right-wing conservative religious types start talking about banning books.

> That surveillance is well scary, Lentilla.

I think so too. Even those of us who aren't dangerous begin to worry about being perceived as dangerous. Just because I want to read what Anton Levy has to say doesn't mean I'm a Satanist - but the Feds would think so. As a rule, they're actually pretty level-headed about it. Nobody seems to be inclined to take advantage of the broad legality of searching public records, but the ability is there, should they choose to use it.