h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Trump has a thick skin. Presidents are, by nature, punching bags, so he'll need it.

Our "checks and balances" have pretty much gone out the window with a Republican majority in the House and the Senate. Even though by the end many in the party had revoked their endorsement of Trump I doubt they'll do much to try to slow him down.

I truly am scared for our future.

48 Democratic senators should be enough to have some influence if they can collaborate with liberal Republicans. The GOP will not necessarily have a romp in the park. Ijn the House of representatives, the Republicans had 247, and now may have 237, but a few races are still in limbo.

Using the popular vote in US elections (and I'm not a US citizen I hasten to add) strikes me as not all that ideal.

If that were used the vote presumably would be forever dominated by voters in NY, LA, Chicago and the other big cities giving little or no say to those in smaller states or regions.

A situation we face in the UK in fact where Scotland, Wales (and NI though that's a different <canofworms) for example very very rarely get a national government they have voted for and this causes all sorts of problems.

I was quite horrified at the thought of Trump myself over the course of the election but since he's been voted in he's done a complete about face in persona - I had seen some people interviewed a few weeks back who'd said 'this isn't him, it's all bluster, he's very charming ... etc.' So I'm much less worried than I was a couple of days ago.

One thing that has struck me since the day he was voted in, is that amongst the first people to congratulate him and be apparently friendly was Putin. Something that makes Russia and the US friendly .... now that - if it happens - can't be all bad can it?

It has of course also struck me that some of his voters might well wonder, after they voted for him in, why he doesn't (or didn't looking into the future) actually carry out some of the more outlandish policies he outlined .e.g. jail Hillary Clinton (that's unconstitutional and he just can't apparently) etc... we shall see.
The fact that hardly anyone can say much about specific policies that have come from him is interesting...

Of course Putin might be being gleeful in an assessment that the US have voted in a complete prat - that might be true too

We live in interesting times. I'm personally far more worried about the fascist turn the UK has taken over recent months.

I never wanted to live in interesting times..

>A reality TV star is the President Elect of the USA<

I think this is a rather unjustified comment if I may be so bold. This is the Apprentice we're talking about, not At Home with the Kardashian's or whatever it is.
Let's look at the parallel thing if it were the UK equivalent.

Much as Alan Sugar is a pantomime caricature in our version of the Apprentice, I'm not sure he wouldn't make a fine PM. He's intelligent, shrewd, takes no prisoners, doesn't suffer fools and is very successful in everything he does. He's not Trump obviously, but that's why I think this isn't a very fair comment.

How the heck did I end defending Trump here

I expect that there are a lot of Americans who would like someone with business talent to get a shot at the top job. Trouble is, Mitt Romney -- the most capable businessman candidate I've seen in a long time -- was and is pretty boring.

Trump has used his New York brusqueness and occasional rudeness as a way of connecting with people who are tired of politicians who try to be everything to everybody.

Many years ago I read one of Trump's books. He seemed reasonable in print. Granted, the gist of it was that he wasn't a bad guy -- modesty is one sin he's not likely to be charged with .

I for one am going to give him a chance to show what he can do. Not that I have any alternatives.....

That's a good question. I blame inherent flaws in the human psyche.




"If [the popular vote] were used the vote presumably would be forever dominated by voters in NY, LA, Chicago and the other big cities giving little or no say to those in smaller states or regions."


Which is the thoght-process that led to the electoral college in the first place. But it hasn't worked. Believe me, we'd be better off without it.

Here, look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wC42HgLA4k




"A situation we face in the UK in fact where Scotland, Wales (and NI though that's a different <canofworms) for example very very rarely get a national government they have voted for and this causes all sorts of problems."


The UK has a MUCH greater portion of its total population living in big cities. The argument doesn't really translate.




"I was quite horrified at the thought of Trump myself over the course of the election but since he's been voted in he's done a complete about face in persona"


It's been a grand total of three days. Let's not jump the gun here.




"So I'm much less worried than I was a couple of days ago."


Oh, sure, three days can just erase everything. We can just ignore everything American Hitler has said up to this point.

You know people didn't think that Actual Hitler meant all of his "bluster" about extirminating the Jewish vermin either, right?




"One thing that has struck me since the day he was voted in, is that amongst the first people to congratulate him and be apparently friendly was Putin."


Exactly. That's NOT a ringing endorsement.




"Something that makes Russia and the US friendly .... now that - if it happens - can't be all bad can it?"


Yes, it absolutely can, given the way Russia's been acting lately. Do you really want to see AMERICA start doing stuff like that?


Stop trying to convince yourself that this is nothing to be concerned about. I don't mean to be offensive, because I do like you, but your blatant denial sounds rather clueless. And it isn't good for you.

>What are you personally worried about

Lots of things.

If he's impeached or assassinated or just plain decides to sit back and act as nothing but a figurehead, we've got Mike Pence as his second-in-command. Pence is just as bigoted and just as evil, but isn't an idiot.

Or thinking about the people he's rumored to have in mind for cabinet positions. Sarah "Drill Baby, Drill" for Secretary of the Interior?? We won't have any public lands left, and most of our wildlife will be extinct in the wild. Dave Clarke, who wants to suppress citizens' First Amendment rights to peacefully assemble, as chief of Homeland Security? Ben Carson - a flat earth Creationist - as secretary for the Department of Education?? Rudy "Stop and Frisk" Giuliani for Attorney General??

Or all the civil rights that are at risk. Or the fact that I'm likely to lose my medical insurance. I'm 44, and have had medical insurance for exactly eight years of my adult life. It's been nice not having medical bills in the tens of thousands each year, while it lasted. Or that a not insignificant number of Trump's supporters on the "alt-right" are lobbying to repeal the 19th amendment, so that I may not even have the opportunity to vote in the mid-term and help take our country back.

Other than that, not much.

Those are things to worry about.

His cabinet picks need to be approved by the Senate, though. If as few as three Republican Senators object and the Democrats form a solid front, the nominees won't be approved. If Trump is throwing these names out for discussion, it isn't as if his transition team has had a chance to vett the people he's talking about.

Repeal of the Affordable health care Act requires 60 votes in the Senate. Republicans may be unified on this issue, but they only have 53 of the votes needed.

A lot will happen behind the scenes. Obama has been civil to Trump in public. We do't know what he's going to tell Trump in private, but Trump is publicly promising to consult with Obama.

What has been needed *all along* is for the two parties to work *together* on health care. Many of the proposals that Obama used had originated with Republicans or republican think tanks. Not all of the critics of Obamacare come form people who think it goes too far. Some critics say it doesn't go far enough. It's on the books. Mechanisms for putting it into practice are there. You don't just walk away from something like this. Not with fans of Obamacare playing up the fact that the popular vote for Clinton was greater than that for Trump. Or that democratic senatorial candidates polled more votes than republican ones.

They need to work *together*.

CGP Grey posted another video regarding the Electoral College this morning, specifically addressing the issue with cities vs. rural areas and popular vote vs states.

http://youtu.be/G3wLQz-LgrM

I'm keeping fairly quiet about Trump. I walked out of my local Wednesday evening when a proud "deplorable" walked in gloating. My father and I were sitting down to lunch and I saw Fox News on the TV behind him labeling the protests at universities as "cry ins". I mentioned it to my dad and the guys at the table behind me chimed in with derision for the students and all the liberal professors brain washing them. My dad and I just kept quiet, no point arguing or pointing out that we're liberals. There really is a scary vibe right now.

I'll wait and see once Trump gets into office. I really don't know how bad he'll be. All of his policy statements were extremely vague. I'm fairly sure, because of the things he's said and the choices he's proffered for appointments that his administration will be very bad for the environment and science.

But just in what he, and the conservative media have done to the division in this country, the name calling, derision, delegitimizing, dehumanizing language (liberals are guilty as well) has bred real contempt and hatred in this country. These proud "deplorables" gloating and emboldened to treat their fellow citizens as "the enemy" is disturbing.

Tomorrow I'll be at my club's motorcycle run. The great majority of my fellow bikers are very conservative in nature. I expect many will be spouting political memes and soundbites to each other and I'll just try to avoid becoming a target.

So he's shifted and said he's not going to completely repeal Obamacare.

I wonder what else he may u turn over?

>>"If [the popular vote] were used the vote presumably would be forever dominated by voters in NY, LA, Chicago and the other big cities giving little or no say to those in smaller states or regions."


Which is the thought-process that led to the electoral college in the first place. But it hasn't worked. Believe me, we'd be better off without it.

Here, look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wC42HgLA4k

<<

Interesting and that also answers my other point which you also comment on about big cities dominating the vote. I actually thought the population of the biggest US cities was much higher than it actually is. Thanks, I have been eductated


>>"I was quite horrified at the thought of Trump myself over the course of the election but since he's been voted in he's done a complete about face in persona"


It's been a grand total of three days. Let's not jump the gun here.
<<

True but I did see some people who knew him personally saying his campaign was all bluster during the campaign and that's increasingly what it looks like - now today apparently Obamacare isn't all bad either.

All this about-facing does make me wonder how the people who voted for him are going to react to it. Er... we voted for you on your semi-fascist grandstanding Donald and now you're going to do WHAT?
Very strange, but then I did read that he also didn't promise very much of substance at all during his campaign.


>>"So I'm much less worried than I was a couple of days ago."


Oh, sure, three days can just erase everything. We can just ignore everything American Hitler has said up to this point.

You know people didn't think that Actual Hitler meant all of his "bluster" about extirminating the Jewish vermin either, right?
<<

I think that's rather over the top, lets not get into Godwin now.


Currently in the UK we have Brexiters now planning a large demonstration designed as far as I can tell, to intimidate the judges when a ruling on a legal appeal against forcing the government to consult parliament and have a vote on the Brexit deal goes ahead. Now *that* is a fairly fascist tactic. I hope the US does not go down that road in the near future.
I have heard dark rumours of KKK style attacks on the rise since Trump was voted in... that's not a good sign... we had similar stuff happen here after the Brexit vote



>>"One thing that has struck me since the day he was voted in, is that amongst the first people to congratulate him and be apparently friendly was Putin."


Exactly. That's NOT a ringing endorsement.


"Something that makes Russia and the US friendly .... now that - if it happens - can't be all bad can it?"


Yes, it absolutely can, given the way Russia's been acting lately. Do you really want to see AMERICA start doing stuff like that?<<

Like doing what? Invading Iraq? How exactly are we (and I mean US and the UK at the forefront) any better than Russia when it comes to military affairs? The whole middle east is aflame because of ill thought out military intervention by US (i.e. US, UK and others)

What I meant in a rather broad sense was the US and Russia not acting like enemies as they have been since 1945 but maybe actually getting along rather better. That would be rather better for world security in general than just about anything else I can think of. I was trying to look at the positive rather than assume the worst - Russia and the US getting along doesn't have to mean the US behaving like Russia. Perhaps if Russia felt less threatened maybe they wouldn't feel the need to flex their muscles so much... (that probably is horribly naive and I don't really believe this is true nor likely, but it would be nice)


>>Stop trying to convince yourself that this is nothing to be concerned about. I don't mean to be offensive, because I do like you, but your blatant denial sounds rather clueless. And it isn't good for you.<<

Well I'll admit to being fairly clueless about US politics since on visits to the US I've discovered just how alien it is to me compared to UK politics. I think blatant denial is a bit strong, mostly I was actually trying to play devil's advocate amonsgst the doom-mongering and was perhaps thinking aloud maybe a bit much.
This does all still worry me but I still think less than it did a whole four days ago now.

Skipping the really long posts - (I am busy this morning) - popular vote can also have short comings.

In Canada, maybe 3 major cities hold well over half of our population. Offer them something really sweet, and they out-weigh the needs of everyone else in smaller cities, towns, villages and farmers. Just because they are many, and not at all representitive of the country as a whole.

We in the States will have to live with Trump for at least the next four years. His comments about women will probably come back to haunt him.

But We don't elect presidents in order to hear them talk. I was going to say that Trump is smart enough to have written books, but then I found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump:_The_Art_of_the_Deal

Schwartz, who apparently ghost-wrote the book, now says he should have called it "The art of the sociopath." Trump apparently didn't write much of it, if he even wrote any of it.

Besides, just 'cause you're smart enough to write a book doesn't mean the book is any good, or that you know what you're talking about.

Again, invoking Godwin, Actual Hitler really DID write his book, and it's JUST AWEFUL....




"True but I did see some people who knew him personally saying his campaign was all bluster during the campaign and that's increasingly what it looks like"


Which doesn't make me feel any better. Strange as this might sound, I'd rather have a selfish bastard who tells the truth than I would a semi-okay guy who lies through his teeth whenever it's convenient for him.




"Very strange, but then I did read that he also didn't promise very much of substance at all during his campaign."


Which is exactly the problem. He said virtually nothing and he was ELECTED! Now we can't be sure what he may or may not do, and almost no matter what he does nobody can call him on it.

Which, again, Godwin, is exactly what Hitler did. Except UNLIKE Hitler he actually managed a significantly higher portion of the vote, which means he has EVEN MORE support than Hitler did.

Which is worse. The only good thing about any of this is that at least I'm sure he's not genocidal. Nor do I believe he would disregard the law.




>> You know people didn't think that Actual Hitler meant all of his "bluster" about extirminating the Jewish vermin either, right? <<

"I think that's rather over the top, lets not get into Godwin now."


I know, I know, I'm invoking Godwin's Law a lot here, and I know it's overused. But it really is an absolutely perfect analogy. I've never known a time when it was more appropriate to make the comparison.




>> Yes, it absolutely can, given the way Russia's been acting lately. Do you really want to see AMERICA start doing stuff like that? <<

"Like doing what? Invading Iraq?"


Yes, like that. Let's NOT do any more of that.




"What I meant in a rather broad sense was the US and Russia not acting like enemies as they have been since 1945 but maybe actually getting along rather better."


I, like you, would love it if America and Russia got along better, but NOT if they were both buddy-buddy imperialist superpowers. That would be BAD....

If you ask me, the two most dangerous people alive are Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin.

Not necessarily because they're the /worst/ people alive, mind you, but because they're /not good/ people with /entirely/ too much power.




"I think blatant denial is a bit strong, mostly I was actually trying to play devil's advocate amonsgst the doom-mongering and was perhaps thinking aloud maybe a bit much."


Yes, I know. I'm sorry, but I couldn't think of a nicer way to put it.

This was far from the first time that a seriously unpopular presidential candidate got elected without making explicit promises. Remember Nixon with his plan to end the Vietnamese war? he didn't say what his plan was, did he?

And what about the 65% percent unfavorability rating that Trump had?* Sure, he has some fervent supporters, but they are up against two powerful forces: the Democratic Party and the Wall Street Republicans.

The American people have spent years watching the gridlock that keeps Congress from getting together to solve the country's mutual problems. Does anyone blame voters from wanting to bring in someone who isn't part of that dysfunctional scene?

Okay, trump wasn't anyone I wanted to turn to for that purpose, but let's look at what he has spent his life so far doing: acquiring not just real estate, but the kind of real estate -- fine hotels, casinos, residential towers -- where people can go to relax, unwind, and have some fun. Not all of them had fun, of course, but Trump was essentially the ultimate good host. He made his name helping people feel good. I expect that that legacy is not going to go overboard now.





*I expect that Trump will be viewed a lot more favorably now that he has won. I don't know how long that honeymoon will last.

The most annoying thing I've heard this week was Sarah Kendall on the Now Show on Radio 4. She opened her act with "Everyone is incredibly miserable about the results of the US election". Well, no dear, that's demonstrably false, isn't it? For starters, even without thinking very hard I imagine at least fifty nine and a half million people are feeling pretty good about it, since they voted for the winner. And a lot of people who didn't bother to vote are happy. And a lot of people who couldn't vote are happy.

In fact, the truth is that the left's idea that "everyone" would be miserable if Trump won was probably large part of the reason Trump won.
The sheer arrogance in the lack of any qualification in that sentence, the dismissal of people who are happy with this result as if they don't even EXIST - that's why people who voted Democrat in 2008 and 2012 stayed home.

Because make no mistake - this election was not won by Donald Trump, it was LOST by Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump got fewer votes than Mitt Romney. Donald Trump got fewer votes than McCain. He only beat Hillary because she got *WAY* fewer votes than Obama - like TEN MILLION fewer than he did 8 years ago. The only hope is that the Democrats learn something from this. The mass cry-ins they've been holding suggest that so far, they're not. I do hope that they can grow up at some point in the next four years.