h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

So apparently Britain is leaving the EU. So this seems as good a time as any to bring up a subject I've been pondering for a while.

To whit: There seem to be a lot of people in the world who become genuinely afraid at the notion of, for lack of a better term, national and/or racial unifications.

The idea of a federated Europe, for example, drives them into fits of hysterics. Similarly, here in America, people are constantly chafing against the United Nations and immigration, despite the fact that both of those things continually work to our own advantage. I believe they're afraid of some sort of foreign influence, or the eradication of their culture, or something.



Personally, I find this utterly baffling. Thoughts?

Damn.


*Adds a subject line.*

As you were.

I think the current American backlash against immigration is not nearly so nobly born. I think there are far too many people who buy into the fear-mongering of conservative outlets. The reason America is so against immigration at the moment is because all immigrants are Muslim terrorists. That's just the currently fashionable excuse. It used to be that they were all taking American jobs and inflating the unemployment rate. And of course, don't forget they all come to America to freeload off the system and get everything for free.

It's all rhetoric, it's all bullpuckey, and personally it makes me more than a little sick.

Yeah, me too, but that's beside the point. It's the apparently deep-seated and evidently widespread resistance to expanding national identity that we be discussing here. (Barring outright conquest, that is.)


I mean, how did nations ever get started in the first place then?


Hmm... Maybe it was just outright conquest... That's a depressing thought.

From your original post, "There seem to be a lot of people in the world who become genuinely afraid at the notion of, for lack of a better term, national and/or racial unifications."

Simply put: because they're being told to.
The people doing the telling? They're the conquerors. It's about power and money, and "us and them".

I'm very baffled too, by especially that notion of it, somehow 'diluting' 'our culture'... I guess the idea or notion of 'our culture' is something for a start I don't get, nor see how it works, as even before I was born, the culture of this country, or, indeed smaller localities within the country, was of course influenced by outside agents, oversaeas trade, and movement of peoples, as now as it always has been. more international -influences apon teh country generally seem for increase in diversity of all things, and more variation and diversity I always figured most people thought was good anyhow Just so utterly astonished how deep though, seemingly, hatred of forigners goes in this putrid country, having watched the results of teh referenda come in overnight If I thought it at all possible for me to do, I'd be seriously considering a move, now, as a consequence away from such putrid vial beliefs as the campaign for the referenda caused, or brought to the surface, and find a suitable liberal state somewhere actually in Europe to move too..

I do agree with you I am tempted to do just that and leave them to stew.
Where would you choose?

Switzerland has managed without the EU. They aren't exactly welcoming newcomers with open arms, though.

Australia looks nice, if you're not set on it being in Europe.

too hot for me and ...
I'd go for one of the nordic nations because they seem similar to what I'm used to

But Australia is full of beach front!

Australia is not immune to the xenophobia and political fear-mongering.

We have, at the moment, electioneering which preys on the gullible and all parties seem dedicated to polarising the population.

It's just that it is all happening in weather which is (usually) better.

Ahem. The US and xenophobia. There was a group called the 'Nativists' in the 1840s who started the 'Know Nothing Party'. I am *not* making this up. Here's one of their posters:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Citizen_Know_Nothing.jpg

They rioted and attacked immigrants in several cities. It got wild and involved cannons, pitchforks, whatever came to hand... Remember the first brawl in 'Gangs of New York'? That was Know-Nothings.

Early nativism was directed against Irish Catholics.

Of course, there was actually a reason for it that time - besides the usual meanness. The Democratic Party of the time (pro-slavery, anti-progress) used the Irish Catholic immigrants as a power base in New York City. Eventually, they formed a powerful political machine called Tammany Hall, which was built on a system of trading favours - kind of like the mafia, but with a slightly lower body count.

It took massive determination on the part of newspaper people like cartoonist Thomas Nast to expose the corruption and run Boss Tweed out of town.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tammany_Ring,_Nast_crop.jpg

Actually, that may come close to answering your question. Although immigrants themselves are not the problem, any time you move a lot of people at one time, there's the potential for unintended consequences.

And, of course, somebody blames the immigrants.

No, but see, that's not my question. I'm much more interested in why no one wants the various parts of the European Union to become a single country.


And/or why people in America (or anywhere else) can't stand the idea of the United Nations becoming a full-blown world government.

I understand having reservations about it, there are legitimate reasons not to, but it's such a knee-jerk automatic reaction that no one even considers the potential benefits.

Yeah, good point. Maybe it's the same reason most of the people here in rural/small town western Pennsylvania despise the federal government, in spite of their patriotism and the benefits they receive from it.

They don't like it when 'they' decide something the locals don't like.

I suspect that's at the heart of the UN and EU opposition.

For instance, one British Researcher told me that the EU was costing the UK more than the UK was getting out of it. Which I doubt. But why that perception?

perhaps it goes along with peoples instinct to blame someone else for their problems,
I dont have a job that can't be my fault that foreign guy has a job he must have stolen it from someone like me...


I dont think humans as a whole are able to work together in the way many of us wish we could

For instance, one British Researcher told me that the EU was costing the UK more than the UK was getting out of it. Which I doubt. But why that perception?

the negative (out of power politicians) circulate misleading facts, its mainly rubbish with a grain of truth. It would all go to the wall if they were elected.

the object is to spread dissent in the population the referendum was a classic example.
That was a new low

"I don't think humans as a whole are able to work together in the way many of us wish we could" [Dr Anthea]

Some years ago I read a book about the building of the Transcontinental railroad in the 1860s in the U.S. The author made a point of saying that the Civil War had made the railroad easier to build because large numbers of men had been trained to work together during the War, and they transferred this new behavior to the building of the railroad.

The thing that most resonates with me out of all this debacle is that all this international unification is something that it seems benefits some but not all - theres is very little trickle down of wealth from the global elites that have done very well out of it.
If you're not having any apparent benefit from this then why would you support it.

From what I've been reading today - there is quite a lot of soul searching in this direction from leading politicians in places like Italy, France, the Netherlands and Germany.

This is a disaster for the UK in my opinion but there may a silver lining in that's given a wake-up call to start making things inclusive for all.

When I was 18 I joined the merchant navy and spent 5 years traveling from port to port all around Europe and N. Africa. It certainly changed my view of the world, getting me to apreciate people and cultures different from my own. My friends who did not experience such things kept their parochial view of the world; a view they still hold 30 years later.
It was noticable when the topic of which way to vote came up at work in the recent referendum that I was going to be one of the only people to vote remain.
Some of the views and beliefs expressed by my colleagues were laughable at times it was clear they had no clear idea what the EU was or what would happen if we left. [ I don't think anyone does ]
I would describe myself and my colleagues as 'white working class' they are a pleasure to work with; hardworking, funny and honest. We have been likened by management as a 'pack of wolves' such is our inclination to close ranks and defend our own.
Not sure what this says about the OP I went on a bit of a ramble.