h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

There is a saying about power & corruption ... but I think the issues raised by the OP are separate to this given that union power is largely a thing of the past. The Tory tactic of selling off Royal Mail before the results of a legal ballot of the workforce are known demonstrates who has the power. Whatever happened to democracy (democracy in the work place).

Why on earth should the workplace be democratic?

Well, perhaps "democratic" isn't quite the right word, although it's not hard to imagine a co-operative working in that way. But surely there's a sense in which good employers and managers should operate in a consultative way, and should seek the input of their staff, both individually or collectively. There are efficiency and effectiveness arguments for this approach, and there are social justice and fairness arguments for this approach too.

I mean, you could just treat your staff as faceless, skill-less drones with nothing substantive to offer to discussions about working practices and arrangements and improvements. But then you might have to ask yourself why you employ them in the first place.

Whenever unions are discussed, I'm always fascinated to hear the stories wheeled out of examples of union "corruption" or inaction or laziness or something like that. I'd counter that by saying that my union pretty much saved my sanity when my employer decided that rather than admit that they'd screwed up their promotion procedure and simply apologise, they'd attempt to save face and attempt something close to constructive dismissal instead.

But I'm also fascinated by the way that people generalise from these stories. Personal experience is a powerful influencing factor, of course, but I wonder whether it's just the primacy of personal experience going on, or whether unions and union officials are held to a higher standard than bosses/HR departments/companies.

By way of illustration.... would it be fair of me to conclude from my experience that all employers will screw you rather than admit a mistake? That they're all inherently untrustworthy? Incidentally, I do conclude that about HR departments rather than 'The Man' generally, but perhaps even that's unfair.

When I started work in the 19-cough-80s, the functional unit managing the workforce was known as 'Welfare'. A few years later, this changed to 'Personnel'. Then it became 'Human Resources'. Contained in those three names is the shift in attitudes towards people who work. It is a universal phenomenon, but there do exist some seriously anti-people individuals, and depending on how high up the ladder they reach, some anti-people organisations.

I've lost my job all too often to these faceless purveyors of hyper-rational industrialisation. I've lost the battle and the war. I have nothing left but my acute sense of injustice and my deep loathing of anyone who believes it is anything else.

These days I amuse myself with imagining what the next three names might be for that function. I invite anyone here to have a go.

from my own experience I am much much more likely to trust and appreciate a union over the HR department of my workplace(s).

Icy

You're younger than me

When I started in the 70's, (different organisation) they were the staff office, and were there to support the organisation and the staff.

Since then the trajectory has been as you described, with us plebs ceasing to be staff and just becoming human resources, to be used up and disposed of

I have also noted that over the years the head of the Staff Office is now the director of human resources. and seems to have moved up the tree in inverse proportion to his departments usefulness.

>> Why on earth should the workplace be democratic? <<

People seem to strongly defend their right to "live" in a "democracy" yet cannot conceive of working in a democracy.

In terms of the horror stories from the 80s I can't really comment, before my time. I'm only 33 and joined the company in 1999 as a teenager.

But I know a lot about the structure of the union now and I really don't think it is anything like that. Of course there are bad reps, every single collective group of people doing anything has some people who are corrupt and some who are rubbish. But I think we are more good than bad. And our members seem to broadly agree given the general state of Union's in the UK that we still have a mass membership and an engaged one at that would seem to suggest to me that we do alright for our members.

On the "democratic workplace" thing industrial democracy is an interesting concept. I'd note that say in the German automobile industry where it is very prevalent you have both some of the most successful and productive manufacturing capacity with simultaneously some of the best terms and conditions for car workers anywhere in the world. Win/win I'd say.

FB

A disbenefit of "managerial dictatorship" with a high turnover of staff that actually do the work (the productive element) ... is the loss of information that the workers have gained through experience ... this provides the organisation with "shop floor" knowledge as to what works in practice rather than what works on "paper". This is lost in situations of high staff turnover. There is also a loss of all pulling together for a common "cause" when there is the managerial dictatorship, which leads to internal divisions & the so called "jobsworth" mentality. Ultimately such companies either go bust & need taxpayers money to bail them out or they develop a cartel or monopoly.

Co-operatives are the prime example of a democratic workplace. I know of one small whole food shop where all staff get a vote on everything. Admittedly there's only about eight of them, so it's not too unwieldy as it could be with a larger company.

It can work, and it's good when it does. It's just so rare.

Yeah, it wouldn't work with half a food shop, for sure.

I'm a supporter of Royal Mail and don't like the idea of privatisation. I'm pretty sure it will be asset stripped, there are plenty of valuable sites to flog off, and will end up in foreign hands - that is a well trodden path (veolia - water, E.on - Power, Arriva - Transport.)

And can someone explain to me what justification there is for gifting shares to employees?

PP.

"And can someone explain to me what justification there is for gifting shares to employees?"

To try to stop them striking against it?

It's an old fashioned sell-out.

So that's the posties out on strike.


Is it Christmas already?

Lols!

Hopefully not.

Here is me on the tell-o-vision last night:-

http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/update/2013-10-16/postal-workers-in-west-country-to-strike/

FB

yay! Well done you for being clear and concise. Nice soundbite that should be picked up by other media.

Two things

How can you demand a "growing postal service" in a declining market?

Have you tried standing closer to your razor, scruffy oik?

Ha!

Only a declining letters market. Direct marketting, parcels and wider logistics booming.

Beards and designer stubble are where it is at!

FB

Eeeee, when I were a postie, Direct Marketing (junk mail) was regarded as the devil's doings because it was charged at much lower rates than regular mail. I'd argue that junk mail has lessened public support for posties because many people are sick of seven tons of shit coming through their postbox each day. It's like BT basing their business plan on telemarketing companies making nuisance calls.

Parcels delivery is far more profitable and less labour intensive right enough but Parcelforce seem to rarely be the delivery company of choice for major distribution companies - that needs to be addressed.

If I was given the choice of buying the same item for the same price from a company using Parcelforce and a company using another, eg, City Link, I'd opt for the one using Parcelforce for the sheer convenience of being able to pick it up locally on a Saturday morning. But I do wonder how long that'll still be the case.

As it is I just get everything delivered to work these days as the building has a manned reception for most of the day.

Deb