h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I agree, changing anything like this is hard, as Baron Grim is right to point out.

But it's a good question: any oblique strategy suggestions would probably be welcomed at the White House right about now.

I don't have any answers.

Sorry Two Bit, I'm not picking on you but you've raised two absolute fallacies in your argument for keeping guns.

>>They helped us win our independence<<

No, that was the French and the fact the British weren't prepared to start World War 1 (or possibly 2 depending on whether you consider the Seven Years' War to be a world war) over the colonies. Without the French blockade of Chesapeake, the British would have crushed the colonial army.

>>They are a potential check on a government<<

No they aren't. If your government wants you dead, it will kill you. If your government wants to impose its will on you, it will. How can a hunting rifle bring down a UAV or a stealth bomber? What possible defence have you got against a trained sniper who can hit you from over a mile away?

oh Baron Grim, I wasn't asking you for any 'answers', I'm not sure really of the questions I want to ask, it just seems to me that you talk a lot of sense of what I see here

It is as basic as that really, I don't have anything against guns, but don't have any 'call' for them

to qualify, mmm, how do I do that from my limited knowledge of them

shooting things in the countryside, don't have a problem, not fond of that being sport particulary, still

I wouldn't have the police here armed as routine, can't see how that is unavoidable in the US

I can't understand really, why individuals feel it so important 'to bear arms'

or waht individuals relationships are with the guns and that is what i was wanting to understand bit more

like you have them, can I ask why?

um, yes, huge cultural difference

It really is just that, culture. It really is that frontier mentality that will never go away.

Obviously, most people who own guns are responsible citizens. I suspect (but don't have any stats in front of me at the moment) that very few people who go through the process of getting a CCL (Carry & Conceal License) commit gun assaults.

But obviously, with something approaching 10,000 gun assaults in this country this year, there's a serious problem.


Like I said, I don't have the answers, but I can relate why I own my guns.


My .22LR is a beautiful antique that was passed down from my great grandfather. It's very fun to shoot and very accurate. I hunted once with it when I was a kid and killed two squirrels. I didn't enjoy it and gave up hunting after that, but I still enjoy shooting. I don't go shooting very often these days, but I like it when I do.

My pistol, a Thompson Contender, is just a wonderful gun. I wanted one when I was younger and when I finally had a chance to buy one, I did. It's got interchangeable barrels. I've got three of various calibres. Unfortunately I really haven't made the time or had the opportunity to take it out in some wide open land and shoot it like I want to. Setting up targets, (beer cans are my favorite) and shooting at long distances. It's a bolt action pistol with barrels up to 16" in length. It was once proclaimed as the world's most accurate pistol. I just had to have one. One day I'll get around to sighting it in properly.

My third gun is the shotgun. That one, I'll readily admit, was purchased as a reaction to a series of burglaries. The same burglar hit our property on multiple occasions two years a row around this time of year. I actually caught him in the act one day and he got away. I don't want him to get away again. I'm not saying I want deadly revenge. As I mentioned the first two rounds are non-lethal. The first is a pepper spray/marker round and the second is a tail stabilized BB bag. After that are 4 buckshot rounds. Those are deadly. My reasoning is that anyone that gets up and still approaches me after the first two rounds does mean me deadly harm. Actually, anyone that approaches me after hearing me cock the shotgun in the first place is a serious threat. Anyway, that's my rationale.

I have NRA type friends that will insist I'm a fool for even loading non-lethal rounds as they're convinced that if the criminal survives he or his family will sue me into poverty.

--Tucuxii: "It could also be argued that the cycle of events that led to calls for independence was started by the heavy handed response of the British Government to American settlers using their guns to take land from native Americans who were allied to the French, and as a consequence plunging Britain into what was essentailly a world war."


You should study your political history more.



>>They helped us win our independence<<

--HonestIago: "No, that was the French and the fact the British weren't prepared to start World War 1 (or possibly 2 depending on whether you consider the Seven Years' War to be a world war) over the colonies. Without the French blockade of Chesapeake, the British would have crushed the colonial army."


And--not to belittle the French--so should you.

thank you for that, I hope I don't to questiony again but just asking more questions

I can understand liking shooting but is that something that could be done at gun club, if you really liked it?

As for having hunting guns, again it is not something you do often, there seems to be an attachment to being to do that and to the gun, again would there be a problem, apart from the massive cultural change and the whole adminstration thing, to having these under some kind of licencing laws. I know that is massive

With the burglar, he got away, without shots being fired,are you responding from the fear that the ante is going to be upped next and not in your favour?

Would you like your culture to be changed?

"You should study your political history more"

Sometimes it's hard to destinquish an objective understanding of history from national myths, unfortunately the issues we are discussing are clouded by a lot of mythology.

sorry, lots of questions,too many, be directed towards you BG, please don't feel obliged to answer in anyway

Mr X, would you be able to expand a little on your points about the correctness or otherwise of the two quotes? Where are they wrong? can you provide some links?

As a UKian it all seems bizarre. It seems that you accept that a huge number of people will die as a result of guns because you believe that owning guns is important.In the same way we accept that people dying in car accidents is a price worth paying for the ownership of cars.

I don't know if you could change the culture, as I understand it if you were to suddenly get UK style gun laws requiring you to hand over all guns to the police it would be difficult to enforce, because a huge amount of people are willing to get into shoot outs with the Fedral Government to retain their freedom.

I've been watching 'The Secret Rulers of the World' with Jon Ronson on YouTube and found out a lot more about the ideas and mentality.

*adds more <cake*

I'm grateful to BG and Two bit for answering our questions on this. It really helps me to understand more, so that's really nice.

On the history front, I'd just like to add:

1. The Demarcation Line of 1763 *did* contribute mightily to the causes of the US War of Independence. There was no way the British government could reasonably be expected to protect all those settlers pushing into the Ohio Valley and displacing the Indians - but just try to tell those greedy settlers that.

2. The Seven Years' War was a world war - it happened just about everywhere. And George Washington was not a lot of help.

3. The French were a big help in the War of Independence - not only because of their military aid, but because of the understandable attitude on the part of the British that they'd rather not go through all *that* again. I don't blame them - they were the world's only superpower at the time, and they wanted to stay that way.

And yep. There's a whole lot of mythology. My dad used to get mad when I tried to explain to him that 'The Patriot' was not even remotely a reasonable description of what happened.

I am going to struggle with keeping up with the history, I am not saying it is unimportant

I am most interested in understanding why American people *now* feel it is such an important thing to have guns.

It has a political context, very powerful one in the here an now of who controls the markets and culture

but as I see nothing to do with history, that surely has been overtaken by the very nature of the armanents that is the possession that inviduals have, for the context in which they would have been used and the futility now in the face of the arms race against the governement, governing forces?

I know it is not simple, I am

"Mr X, would you be able to expand a little on your points about the correctness or otherwise of the two quotes? Where are they wrong? can you provide some links?"

I should. And I must apologize, because I really don't have the time or the energy to do so this time. My life's a mess.

All I really mean is that it would be wrong (and, frankly, rabidly arrogant) to suggest

A: That the Seven Years War was caused entirely by encroaching American settlers. It wasn't. In fact, and I could be wrong about this part, I think the Indians didn't ally with the French until after the war had already started.

Fact of the matter is that the British Empire didn't want to have the French as a rival in the region. I expect they were quite glad to be rid of them.

And

B: That French assistance is the only reason America won the War of Independence. (I can never tell how to spell that word.) Certainly they made a major contribution--serving their own political ends in the process--but they were far from being the only thing that defeated the British.

If you read the history books you find that this is an attitude certain Britons have been nursing since all the way back to the Battle of Yorktown. I mean, enough already. You lost. It was a long time ago. Get over it.

um, I do know that history does have something to with culture, but still

and also lots of history on this thread, not keeping up, but to be honest, really, does all this come back to the details of the war of Independance?

or what ever war it was? Please tell me I got the right war

Relevant article,
http://boingboing.net/2012/12/14/what-science-says-about-gun-co.html
in short, from a scientific perspective, it is unclear what effect gun control has on crime/safety, but (by social science standards) it is clear that the question is largely irrelevant to how USAians' form their opinion on gun control.

Yes, you did. And no, it doesn't. This is just a pet peeve of mine, don't worry about it.

As far as stricter gun control goes, I personally am undecided.

Undecided on what? I appreciate stricter gun control. Does this mean that you abstain from the debate? Wouldn't vote ever one way or another?

I am unsure what 'gun control' would be even acceptable to suggest but say President Obama came out with one, you cn guess with a one in a ballpark much better than me, would you vote for or against?

or abstain as in it is not an issue for you one way or another?

Abstain. I'm trying to keep an open mind to both sides.