h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I only meant that I didn't know what they thought you could do about things in the US, Rod.

"really Mr D, how helpful, good"

One does one's best... I mean, it's not like presenting them with well-considered rhetoric has ever worked.

Can someone explain the Fig 11 reference? I don't get it.

"Not when it's about armed police in schools...it saddens e.

"The guns just make it easier not to have to talk things over and simply shoot.

"The reason the US is more violent is because of the guns."

I wonder if people who live abroad think that everything in the US end up in a gun fight. I don't think I ever drew my gun when inside the school including the time I responded to a report of a student with a gun (It was a pellet gun that just looked real). Not that the notion that most officers never draw their weapon in their career is accurate at all. It's been over 20 years size someone from my agency has shot someone.

Most of what cops do is talking to people. That becomes even more in portent in schools, because your goals are broader than the officer on the street. You're there to counsel kids and help them work out issues. The community of the school is smaller so you get to know the staff and students better than any road officers except maybe in the smallest towns.

Not to say that we don't use force. I don't count the times I was in fights in the jail. On the road, I've been generally proud of how many people that I've been able to arrest with only minimal force. I'm generally pretty good at keeping people under control. I've only had to do two use of force reports one for a Taser in a woman we were arresting at a school and the other was complicated.

As for the violence, the impact may be greater because of firearms, but that's not what causes the violence. It has more to do with a society that doesn't shy away from violence. In many ways it's glorified. We have segments of our society that don't feel like they're a part of society, and there's a subculture that tells people that crime and violence are acceptable ways to get what they want. We also have an ethos of self reliance which states that there's only so much we'll do to help those in poverty. It also states that it's perfectly acceptable to use violence to resist an attack. If someone took a poke at my kid at school, I would have no trouble with my kid fighting back rather than waiting to be rescued by a teacher. I prefer talking, but there's a time when you have to take action.

Guns don't make us more violent, we have guns because we're more violent.

When I was abroad, I didn't get to see much if what other societies are like, so I may be mistaken. Maybe people every where are like us.

BTW, is anyone else seeing ads for Concealed Carry Magazine at the the bottom of the screen for this conversation?

a Fig 11 target is the full-body target the British Military use for target practice. there is a Fig 12 target which is just head and shoulders.

"Q: How many NRA members does it take to change a lightbulb?"

None - they like sitting in the dark and as there is nothing in the constitution about lightbulbs it follows they are a liberal plot.

I'll fess up i am not reading link at the moment, just posts, I'll catch up , probably

Guns don't make us more violent, we have guns because we're more violent.

No, you are not more violent than anyone else, you just allow the capacity to be so because you choose to put the means in your hands

you also support a wider framework that says that is the only way of living your lifes

it isn't

"is anyone else seeing ads for Concealed Carry Magazine at the the bottom of the screen for this conversation?"

I still use the Brunel skin - no ads.

And I disagree fundamentally with your observation, Two Bit, that USAicans are more violent than other nationalities. In any British inner city (and plenty of small towns and villages) there are pubs in which on any given Saturday there's pretty much guaranteed to be a fight. However, these fights rarely escalate beyond fists or at worst broken bottles because the chances that either party is packing a handgun are vanishingly small. I have no doubt that if we could buy a Glock in a supermarket, there'd be considerably fewer young men alive every weekend than at present. A handgun makes it very very easy and quick to act on a violent impulse in a way that is far more reliably fatal than any other weapon. Right now, when young British men have the impulse to do violence to someone who has attacked, offended or otherwise annoyed them, they are required to close to within arm's length and get personal, at some risk to themselves. Handguns remove the need to get so close, remove a lot of that risk, and simultaneously massively increase the potential damage one can do and the speed with which one can do it. I can certainly think of several times in my life where, if I had had a handgun, I would definitely have used it... and in retrospect, in every single case, I'm glad I didn't have one. Not having one cost me things like a stolen watch, a black eye, and not knowing anything about the person who I saw leaving the house I was sleeping in at speed having stolen the TV. Having one would have meant dealing with the consequences of shooting those people. Furthermore, I'm reasonably certain none of those people had guns themselves. If guns were common enough (and legal) that they'd have a reasonable expectation that I'd have one, they'd likely have taken the precaution of having one too. All in all, I prefer to live in a society where guns are scarce.

If anything, my limited observation of the people of the USA as individuals is that they're mostly almost incredibly friendly, helpful and polite, most of the time. However, it's hard to escape the feeling sometimes that they are incredibly polite because they're afraid that if they're not, and they offend the wrong person, they might get shot.

and in my neck of the woods, women have equal opportunites too, glad we don't all have guns

as in Thursdays ladies night, mmm

we haven't got to Friday and Saturday yet have we, no

I don't think most people here think about guns that much. I wonder what the percentage of people who carry are. It's probably not more than a percent. Maybe a couple of percent keep one in their car.

While there certainly are many folks that carry weapons on them here in the States, either with a CCL or not; keep in mind that the vast majority of folks here do not.

another eerily timely

Jinx, you owe me a coke.

It is a bit outlandish to think that guns are so prevalent there that people are polite for fear of being shot, although I recognise Hoo was being facetious. When I lived there I knew precisely two people with guns (granted, that was pinko New England). One was a weird aging hippie who bought one in a bout of post-9/11 paranoia. The other was a militia-minded individual who wouldn't countenance having a Kalazhnikov because they are part of a communist conspiracy. In the US, hardly anyone has guns. It's much like the UK that way.

"In the US, hardly anyone has guns. It's much like the UK that way." No smiley, so .

Self-Reported Gun Ownership in U.S. Is Highest Since 1993: http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/self-reported-gun-ownership-highest-1993.aspx and http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/25/gun-ownership-us-data

So, somewhere between 32% & 47% of American households admit to owning at least one gun. Much like the UK

Keep in mind, there is a difference between owning guns and carrying guns. I own three guns. None of which are semi-automatics, nor concealable.

"When I lived there I knew precisely two people with guns (granted, that was pinko New England). One was a weird aging hippie who bought one in a bout of post-9/11 paranoia. The other was a militia-minded individual who wouldn't countenance having a Kalazhnikov because they are part of a communist conspiracy. In the US, hardly anyone has guns. It's much like the UK that way. "

Well it must be reassurring to know that only fine upstanding people have access to guns rather than the wierdos and the extremists

According to the figures I can find approximately 2.5% of the US population have active concealed carry permits. Just to put that in perspective, by using actual numbers, that's approximately 8 MILLION people with active concealed carry permits. To use that old chestnut of comparing it to the population of other countries, that's like nearly everybody (except, presumably, for a few thousand pinko peaceniks) in Wales and Scotland actively carrying a concealed firearm.

Then we'd see who's in charge. Nae bloody referendum then, eh, Mr. Cameron? But I digress.

Yeah, 8m out of a population of 311m. T'aint that much, is it? No, wait IT'S FAR TOO MANY. There is NO reason for a civilian to EVER need to carry a concealed firearm. Not even allowing for the 2nd Amendment. You don't carry a concealed weapon for personal protection, you carry it because you expect to cook some fools.


Right onto the UK/US comparison. Approximately 1.5% of UKians are licenced gun owners. There are a bunch more guns and users than that, but many people either own more than one, or use guns provided by their shooting club. Given that approximately 45% of USians are licenced gun owners I'd say that saying the UK and the US are similar in their rate of gun ownership is a bit silly.

It's not silly at all. Remember what the point was? In both countries a) chances are the bloke you meet in the street WON'T have a gun, and b) people's behaviours and mannerisms are not based upon fear that everyone has a gun and is waiting to shoot you for not saying please and thank-you.