h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I guess I'd better bookmark this thread;
wouldn't want to have to read some of the
nastier posts more than once.

Though by comparison to the good old days
this has been pretty civilised so far. Which
is odd in the light of a waning full moon
and the coming winter solstice.
(Notwithstanding the apopolex.)



~jwf~

You know, this is exactly why I don't like Ask. This is exactly what makes me upset. Everything a volunteer says is always interpreted in the worst possible way. Every sentence is dissected and we're the big evil dictators.
No, Rod, I don't have a thick skin, I never had it.

You know, we're just people. We're not the spokespersons of a politician or something.

Tav...we've all been there. Icy's a volunteer too, as you noted. I have been one, too, so I know it can feel like a thankless task.

It's important - for oneself - to take a step back sometimes. Icy's question didn't warrant the reaction you gave it. A thick skin *is* necessary in life, unfortunately.

Tav, again can I say that I don't like to see you upset like this.
I know we are not friends but I think you are a star

We are all people here. I think you do need to think about your responses because I do not see that that volunteers are treated or viewed as you say.

It is also an issue is volunteers themselves sometimes over react to anything that is less than glowingly positive and can't take being questioned even when the line of questioning is perfectly reasonable.

On being a person I have been repeatedly told that I am offensive, abusive, troll, does it hurt, yes a lot, do I get a right of reply, no, do I feel that is unfair, yes I do

but pick myself up and dust myself off with the support of my friends

I use ask to ask questions (strangely enough), but particularly enjoy the quirky convos, and the strange, and the strangely quirky, and topic drift into the strangely spurious and of course the spuriously strange. Oh, and to keep an eye out, of course, for the inevitable return of the hoovery one

The last few days I asked a couple of questions, and where else but on Hootoo would my question about the size of a bottle of JD, actually result in someone kiondly going to the supermarket, with a tape measure, and actually measuring the bottle?

Tav, don't let anyone ever invalidate your feelings. Your are entitled to them and they don't need to be justified to anyone.

They also shouldn't be judged by anyone, particularly if they have no idea what it is like to perform the ongoing tasks that are necessary to run this site.

oh god, that wasn't me was it?

If it was I was in no way meaning to invalidate Tav's feelings, or make her justify them, or judging her for having them.

Was genuinely trying to establish where they are coming so that I can understand them and if I am being upsetting in any way to try and do better by her by being able to take that into consideration

I'm really glad I'm a long-standing member of this community and not a newby just checking it out. If I was a newby, I certainly wouldn't still be here to post this.

Based on this thread there seems to be a lot of conflict between those who help out running the site and those who use it. I'm genuinely oblivious to this in general but it's really, really obvious and really, really obnoxious in this thread. I'm not talking about any one person here, there are loads joining in.

Topic drift is one thing but this thread feels like it's been completely derailed by people a) complaining about how the site works; b) complaining their feelings are being hurt; c) complaining other people shouldn't be so touchy; or d) trying really hard not to upset other people.

Oh, and e) complaining about how derailed this thread feels (that'll be me, then).

"How do you use Ask?" is a really interesting question. I honestly didn't see anything sinister about it. But even if there is an agenda for change, is that necessarily bad? Let's remember what we're based on. Remind me - was it a radio show? a stage show? a set of books? a TV show? or even a film? h2g2 is constantly evolving and yet always comfortingly familiar.

Gosh, all this complaining has got me in a grump.

Deb

Again I apologise and am so very mortified and distressed about how obnoxious I must be, or come across

*bows out of thread*

Deb, nobody said change is necessarily bad. But Icy simply asked about it, and practically got his head bitten off.

For what it's worth may I say that any system must
have regulators, administrators, moderators and even
policemen if it is to work in an orderly way.

That may be obvious, but what is often overlooked is
the nature of the mob it serves and the mob's democratic
sense of an entitlement to question, criticise and even
'stick it to the man'.

There have been 3 major changes of management at h2g2
over the 12 years I've been here and many 'lesser' shifts
of policy and function during the BBC years as the Corp
adjusted its interest and investment in the site with many
staff reductions and infrastructure failures.

It will always be the case that the average researcher will
resist change, question any movement (real or imagined) in
the status quo. And it will always be the case that those who
serve in positions of responsibility and authority will feel put upon,
insulted, unloved, unappreciated and even victimised when the mob
gets itself all rabbled. Take Nero for example.

Rome wasn't built in a day y'know. We've only been at it 12 years
and are a long way yet from Utopia. But the better we understand
our history and the nature of the way human nature operates in
any organisation - from all sides of every question - the better
we can understand and sympathise with each other.

The one particular difficulty we have in cyberspace is anonymity.

We all tend to forget that we are just a nick-name to each other
with no real understanding of others' real life feelings, abilities,
sensitivities, age, gender, talent, handicaps, ailments, earnings,
needs, wants, experience, ambitions...

But we all must come to grips with the fact that cyberspace is
not real. It is an illusion. Sometimes we let it become a delusion.
Sticks and stones, eh wot.

That's when we can step back into real life and have a nice cuppa.

And as Boney's wife suggested, perhaps a wee bit of cake.


~jwf~

As a truism it should be noted that ANY authority causes people to act a bit crazy on both sides of the line; the one being limited and the one limiting.

My point is that the people on both sides are usually good people, but not perfect.

'But we all must come to grips with the fact that cyberspace is
not real.'

You know, I didn't want to bring it up, but this is exactly one of the problems. People think cyberspace is not real, but it is. You and me we are exactly as real as people you meet in the street. People think just because it's cyberspace they can behave in whichever way they like (some people think that, I must say, not everybody). But that should not be the case.

We should act the same in 'cyberspace' as we do in real life. With the same friendlyness, respect and politeness.

I do not see h2g2 as 'cyberspace'. I work for this site. My work is real work. I spend many hours per day with thinking about what has to be done for h2g2 and with actually *doing* things for h2g2 or discussing h2g2. It's not imagined. It's not a place to do in anonymity whatever I want. This is *real*. It affects my so-called real life like it would be affected by me being member of a sports club or whatever. It absolutely *is* part of my real life.

Cyberspace - as you call it - is not unreal. This is not a computer game. None of us is a computer generated goblin or alien who can just be hit on the head with a pixel sword. We *are* real people and we must treat each other like that.

Tavaron, to be fair, you were a lot more strident in what you said to Icy than the simple question he asked was. You are not under attack. I'd understand it if Icy North felt he was spoken to unfairly, like you do.

Anyway, that's the last I'm saying about it.

Well said, Tav!

You have seriously affected my perceptions.
I feel a shift from a long entrenched position
that all online relationships are fictional.

Games and role-playing are of course, and have long
been, the primary areas of engagement for many of us.

But you make a very moving case for the reality of h2g2
achieving true substance.

I must consider this further and be more open
to the possibility that others have actually been
able to emigrate into this new dimension and
see it as defensible turf.


~jwf~

i.e., this is a community, a culture.

Just peeking to appreciate what Tav and jwf have said about the reality of cyberspace. That's the sort of thought-provoking Stuff I like to read on Ask.

So maybe one answer to the question, HN?

One of several responses, yes, Dmitri. Thank you. Others may have not answered directly, but they certainly have demonstrated how they *use* the Ask h2g2 forum.

And, tonight.... I'm using ask to try and find soemthign to do... but not many people are posting