h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

A quick bit of admittedly dodgy research suggests to me there were about 4m Slaves in 1860 in a world population of about 1.2 Billion

There are estimated to be about 12-30 Million Slaves today in a world popularion of about 7 Billion. So it looks to me like Slavery today is at least in the same "ball park" as it was back in the day.

I'd say given we supposedly live in enlightened times 150 years after the emancipation declaration, that it is arguably more of an egregious failing of our society now, even if in relative terms the number of slaves is fewer.

FB

On the fat thing.

I think it is without question that the eat less/move more thing is the way to lose weight. It is how the physical universe operates after all.

But.... there is more to it than that. there really is. Peoples capabilits vary. Usain bolt can run the 100m sprint in 9.58 seconds it does not follw therefore that any of the rest of us would be able to neccessarily run the race in comprable speed.

Peoples mental capability is different, people naturally, have different strength of will and different ability to be disciplined and resist temptation. That Hoo possesses the strength of character not to snack on suggary snacks when peckish, or down in the dumps doesn't mean everyone is able to do the same because of inherant differences in our characters and makeups.

I used to be a fatty, I have managed to sort things out and have for some time now maintained a healthy weight (eating less/moving more ). I am lucky in relative rude health so I can walk everywhere and I have an interest in food so like to cook and disposable income that means I can afford to buy lots of fresh food.

But I tell you what it is a struggle for me every single day. I have to actively put huge amounts of effort and willpower in not slipping into bad habits. And when I am ill, or when down (I recently had a bereavement) my guard slips and bang before I know it the Dominos pizza man is at the door. I manage to keep it in check but I find it really hard.

One thing that causes me difficulty is appetite. Different people have different appetites, I find that pretty much no matter how big a meal I have eaten within about an hour I start to feel peckish and withing two I feel actively hungry. Dealing with this is difficult. I don't want to be over weight so I am putting loads into the effort but I can imagine it would be really, really easy to slip into bad habits. I reckon if you don't experience this, then you probably can't empathise with people who do.

Eating less/Moving more will work for everyone, but who easy that is to actually do isn't the same for everyone.

FB

"if someone doesn't /want/ to vote they shouldn't be forced to"

How about if they don't /want/ to pay taxes? Or stick to the speed limit? Society places all sorts of limits on our behaviour, forces us to do things or prevents us from doing things, all the time. I can't see why voting shouldn't be something that's required, just as paying tax is required.

For a start not voting doesn't have a overtly hostile effect on anyone else (well perhaps the candidate who wanted the vote)
And voting is a right - the same doesn't apply to taxes, speed limits etc

The really interesting point in my argument is whether my logic that you can't be forced to exercise your rights includes life and suicide

Disappointingly I can't find the Simpsons clip of Homer being told that he has the right to remain silent
"I choose to waive that right"

(Baron Grim- I was close to the correct title then... I should have been closer, I only read the book a couple weeks back... )

The will-power thing with loosing weight (not dieting, dieting is not how to loose, and keep off weight, changing diet is the way to do that, as it has a greater chance of keeping the weight off), always seems to be given as a unbreakible problem, but really it must depend on the reasons* for* loosing weight, and how powerful they are as a push to want to lose weight...
Moving more helps, I for one could never go down the visiting a gym route, I've heard the kind of music they play in such places Mind, my sexercise routeen seems to work well, and very little things can make a differnce; My drinking mate, is away, has been for a couple weekends, so I've missed out on two trips to the pub... and lost 2 LB (I am assuming these are connected, as in the same period I fortunately for my tastebuds, and unfortunately for my waisteline found a new Polish supermarket and discovered pierogi and seriously tasty peppered salami and smoked cheese, yet still amanged to shift a pound otr two).
Its all about portion control, and sizing; my 'single measure' of raw, rice, to cook with, is now half what it was years ago, so I've effectively halfed the size of most of my meals (as most seem to be rice related)
Mind, baking my own bread doesn't help much too much tasty, but it is possible to resist, and have the one sandwich, not the two well... sometimes

"For a start not voting doesn't have a overtly hostile effect on anyone else (well perhaps the candidate who wanted the vote)"

Not paying your tax doesn't have an "overtly hostile" effect on anyone else. Let's face it, any single person not paying their tax is a drop in the ocean, right?

"voting is a right - the same doesn't apply to taxes, speed limits etc"

There's where I think you're wrong. Voting isn't *just* a right, like, say, the right to life. It is, or at least I believe it SHOULD be, also a *responsibility*, like paying your tax is a responsibility. It isn't, right now (unless you're in Australia), but I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be. And you've not provided one so far, you've just said it isn't.

To be clear - I'm not suggesting you should be forced to vote FOR someone. I'm suggesting that you should be compelled, legally, to cast a vote, even if you choose to make that vote "none of the above". Quite apart from anything else, I think if voting were compulsory, "none of the above" would probably win many elections, which would give politicians something to think about and would burn down any claim they might try to make that they have a solid mandate.

Not paying your tax does have an overtly hostile effect - it might not be very big, but it has an effect

Forced voting, as i said affects other rights, most notably that of free speech - by being made to cast a vote (even if that vote be "none of the above" or a blank vote) is forcing you to "say" something that you might not wish to say

I think compulsory voting would risk people putting down a greater amount of protest votes at irritation/anger towards the compulsory voting, giving a shift towards more radical parties
(that's not my reasoning, more of an observation, maybe it wouldn't especially over time - i'm not sure)

Though i'll certainly agree with that a hefty (let alone a majority) for none of the above would be interesting for politicians

Totally agree on thechanging diet thing. Mostly what I have done.

But seriously how does one deal with an appetite problem? If oyu are always hungry even after eating it takes tremendous discipline to not graze and snack.

FB

Hoo - <>

Nosebag - <>

Which is of course why the politicians will never allow a "None of the Above" option. Not in fifty years, not in five hundred.

>>But seriously how does one deal with an appetite problem? If oyu are always hungry even after eating it takes tremendous discipline to not graze and snack.

It takes some discipline to start with, and then when abstinence becomes a habit, it's much easier. All you have to do then is guard against slipping back into bad habits.

It tends to help to have a proper incentive; just wanting to lose weight for some nebulous reason like 'health' might not be good enough, whereas something like wanting to be slim and attractive to catch the eye of a new lover, might be.

Is there a significant difference between voting 'informal', which is what I was permitted to do in Australia, and not voting at all - and, if there is no significant difference, why should voting be compulsory?

Some figures from Australia: http://australianpolitics.com/voting/informal/house-of-representatives-statistics

"Not paying your tax does have an overtly hostile effect - it might not be very big, but it has an effect"

Hang on - it's either "overtly hostile" (what does that even mean, anyway?) - or it's not very big, surely?

"Forced voting, as i said affects other rights, most notably that of free speech"



How does asking you a question violate your right to free speech? I don't think you've thought this through. I say to you "Black, or white?", and you say "Black", "White", "neither", or "Not bothered". How have I affected your free speech there?

Also, you seem to misunderstand the extent of your "right" to free speech - it's not unlimited. It has many, many limitations already. EVEN IF compulsory voting affected free speech - and I really can't see how it could, even in principle - then that's not an argument against it per se.

" by being made to cast a vote (even if that vote be "none of the above" or a blank vote) is forcing you to "say" something that you might not wish to say"

Again - there are plenty of precedents for society requiring you to do something you might not wish to do - paying taxes is once again the perfect example. Why is perhaps not wishing to do something that's your civic responsibility any kind of argument against being legally required to do it? You don't apply that argument to paying tax or obeying speed limits.

"I think compulsory voting would risk people putting down a greater amount of protest votes at irritation/anger towards the compulsory voting, giving a shift towards more radical parties"

Good.

Except... most of those radical parties are tiny single issue social clubs for inadequate nutbars, and they'd be up against the well oiled machines of the conventional parties.

What would actually happen in the real world would be that the conventional parties would change tack as soon as they realised that they'd have to start tailoring their policies towards ALL the electorate, not just that minority who can be bothered to vote currently.

Specifically, you'd see a lot more policy favouring younger people, because it's an established electoral fact that people under 25 in general don't bother to vote - so politicians can safely ignore anything those people might want. Conversely, people over 60 vote in much greater numbers, so they have a disproportionate effect on what policies get put forward.

If everyone had to vote, the main parties would dedicate more effort across the electorate, instead of focussing only on the motivated.

"(that's not my reasoning, more of an observation, maybe it wouldn't especially over time - i'm not sure)"

The question to ask yourself is - has it happened in Australia? Answer: not really. Which rather shoots down your point, I think.

"how does one deal with an appetite problem?"

In the first instance, eat when hungry and STOP EATING WHEN FULL. This is the bit that seems to be broken in many people, and partially responsible is the "clean your plate", "there are children starving in Africa", "don't let that go to waste" bullshit we were brought up with. We're trained, many of us, to eat everything that's put before us, because to leave anything would be rude, or wasteful, or whatever. This results in people scarfing down huge portions of food then feeling bloated and unpleasant for hours afterwards, and eventually coming no longer to recognise the feeling of being satiated, and just carrying on eating past the point they should have stopped. Part of the problem is the very concept of "fast food". Quick, get it down you, there's work to do. If you take the time to eat your food properly, you will recognise when you've had enough, and at that point, put whatever else is left on your plate in the fridge or the bin.

Even the first bit can be difficult, however, in a culture with rigidly prescribed mealtimes and working practices that don't tolerate eating on the job.

If you've got a serious clinical problem with this (as opposed to just being weak-willed) there are drugs that will suppress appetite. (Trivia: years ago I was responsible for the commissioning of a plant manufacturing an appetite suppressant drug. The drug was quite successful for some time, but was eventually withdrawn from use as it was eventually found to cause a slight increase in heart attacks and strokes among those using it.)

"It takes some discipline to start with, and then when abstinence becomes a habit, it's much easier. All you have to do then is guard against slipping back into bad habits."

I do hope this happens for me soon, I have been settled into my new eating habits for over a year and a half maintaining a steady and healthy weight but have seen no appreciable drop in my appetite. I still pretty much feel hungry all the time. I have not slipped back but it requires real discipline on my part.

"In the first instance, eat when hungry and STOP EATING WHEN FULL"

Top point Hoo, but if the issue is you rarely/never feel full and always feel hungry then it doesn't help. I honestly thought that by now my appetite would have diminished. I eat a lot less food, and much healthier stuff and have for quite some time but have not yet seen the knock on benefit. I am highly motivated to stay thin and healthy but it is a constant challenge.

FB

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"You know what would be great to consider as unacceptable in 50 years? Slavery. There are more slaves today than at the height of the colonial slave trade era."

Like hell there are. I only refer to America mind, not the whole world, but if you can actually show me valid statistics that /prove/ this, I will be shocked and appalled.

However, even in that unlikely circumstance, I would be quick to point out that we have something like 120-times the population that we did then. So unless there are also 120-times the number of slaves, and you and I both know there aren't, it's an inherently misleading statement that's proportionally incorrect.
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I wish I was wrong, but the simple fact is there are more slaves today than there were then. They're not official slaves in the sense that they are legal to own and called such. They're servants who've been taken to foreign countries and had their passports taken until they pay off their "hiring fees". They're children conscripted into warlords' armies, threatened to be shot if they try to go home. They're young women looking for work only to be shipped away to brothels all over the world. They're fisherman taken out to sea and forced to work and never brought back into port. It goes by different names today, such as human trafficking, but people forced to work for wages at or below subsistence, often facing the threat of death are slaves no matter what you call them.

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/mar/23/opinion/op-skinner23

Also, I never said "as a percentage of population" and you are correct that by that ratio there are fewer now, but even so the numbers today range between 12 and 27 million slaves and that is indeed shocking and appalling. Would it be alright if there were just many total slaves or even half as many then as now? That there are ANY is appalling. And it's also something not widely known, so I understand your reaction.


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"But Australia has an atheist PM and everyone knows that all the worst totalitarian regimes were led by atheists. Ya know... like Hitler?"

Hey!

That's like saying that vegetarians and dog-lovers are evil just because Hitler was a vegetarian and a dog-lover.

'Sides, it's not even true. From what I can tell he was actually somewhere between an agnostic and a deist. So there.
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Julia Gillard IS an atheist as am I, and I'm damn proud of her for it. I wish the US could tolerate such an open atheist in our national politics. And my remark about Hitler was a bit of a joke as it is an often repeated antiatheist attack that Hitler and Stalin and such were atheists. Hitler was very notably NOT an atheist and had the full backing of Catholic leaders.
http://atheism.about.com/od/isatheismdangerous/a/HitlerAtheist.htm

My remark regarding Godwin's law was meant as a clue that I was being purposely facetious.

There are indeed many more "slaves" then there were from when it was legal
But the fact that it is reducing proportinally to our population means we, as a world, have turned against it from what we were

As metals become ever more scarce, I guess shaving will eventually become socially unacceptable.

At that point we will be able to answer the question "What have the Taliban ever done for us".

I always drink a huge amount of water, just a habbit I got into years ago, and gallons of coffee; I think lots of hydration can do a half-decent job of helping you feel full

I'm going to save you the cost of Paul McKenna's "I can make you thin" now.

1. Don't eat junk, eat real food and drink fruit juice, water, or diet drinks. Avoid sugary carbonated drinks. Not difficult.

2. When you're hungry - drink. Quite often you're not actually hungry, you're thirsty but can't tell the difference.

3. If you've had a drink and ten minutes later you're still hungry - eat. Not junk, though, eat proper food, but don't feel constrained by mealtimes. If you're hungry, eat.

4. Eat slowly. Put your food or cutlery down between mouthfuls and don't pick it/them up again until your mouth is *completely* empty. Then and only then start preparing your next mouthful.

5. As soon as you no longer feel hungry - STOP. Don't eat another mouthful. Whatever's left, put it in the fridge or the bin. You're not hungry now, you don't need it.

And that's it. There's nothing in there about counting calories, no recipes, no points system, no clever-clever business about mixing carbs and protein or never eating meat after 1 pm or anything like that. Just slow the heck down, only eat when you're actually hungry, only eat until you're not hungry any more, and don't mistake thirst for hunger. It's really quite simple, doesn't require a great deal of thought or discipline (hey, you can eat whatever you want whenever you're hungry!), but if you actually follow it, it works.

>> But seriously how does one deal with an appetite problem?
If you are always hungry even after eating...<<

My experience, while losing dozens of pounds
over the past decade has been that these feelings
area part of the process of the stomach shrinking.

It may feel like hunger, even hurt like hunger, but I
convinced myself it was just my anatomy restructuring
itself and as such was a positive and worthwhile pain.

Happily, my stomach capacity has been reduced by half
and I simply could not have the kind of double and even
triple portions I was used to.

Last evening I ordered a pub special, an "All You Can Eat"
spaghetti and meatballs dinner. I barely finished the first
single serving - I felt full, stuffed even, but very happy
to know my stomach simple cannot hold more than a third
of its old capacity - especially when washed down with beer.


~jwf~